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Whats Going On With This Wheatie?!

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timsumrall's Avatar
United States
1256 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2011  10:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add timsumrall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice find! Peace out!
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2011  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're confusing me with coppercoins- I don't collect anything.

He's not confusing you with me...I don't collect anything either.
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foundinrolls's Avatar
United States
3507 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2011  01:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is a NICE Error! As coppercoins said, the obverse is well struck, the reverse is missing a portion that fell away after the strike. Call it a lamination error, a delamination error or a partial split planchet after the strike.

Some might argue with the last description but either of the three descriptions are good for this coin.

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United States
601 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2011  03:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add liveandievarieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coppertop- to answer your question, NO. There is absolutely no way that this could be damage and look the precise way that it does. I understand that to the untrained eye, it looks like a gaping hole, like a gouge. But I encourage you to go back and read the post thoroughly, it has been suggested and explained why this is not damage.
Nearly all large, deep, dramatic laminations or planchet splits will have this appearance of roughness and randomness. It is one of the aspects that clearly signals the genuine article.
There are tons of ways to damage a coin, but there are not tons of ways to accurately imitate this error type.
Pillar of the Community
United States
601 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2011  03:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add liveandievarieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The strike itself is probably what dislodged the chunk of planchet. What you're seeing at the top as raised metal, is the effect of the (lose upon impact) planchet piece being pushed into the other portion of the planchet.

Just as a foreign object pushed very hard will cause deep gouges, so will 2 pieces of coper under the tons per square inch pressure of a cent die press.

In less than a tiny fraction of a second, the dies compressed on the planchet that had serious structural integrity issues.
As this happened, it dislodged the portion of planchet which is missing from the reverse.
When said piece was dislodged, it was simultaneously pushed against the larger portion of planchet, under incredible pressure.
Then coin was ejected from the dies, probably dislodging the smaller, missing portion of the planchet at the same time.

This all happened more quickly than the time it takes to blink your eye- no I'm not exaggerating.

When such things occur under intense pressure and incredible speed, the result only has one appearance. There's nothing else like it.

Think of 2 metal bars- one is bent by slowly applying pressure. The other is snapped in two, like a twig. If you look at their stress points, they will look very different, even though they were identical metal bars. The bar that was snapped will have obvious signs of QUICK and great pressure. On the bent bar, pressure was obviously applied more gradually.
What I'm trying to illustrate is that under the minting process, some of the ways that metal reacts is not possible to replicate through damage. I tried to show why, I'm afraid my metaphor may fall flat.....
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United States
601 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2011  04:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add liveandievarieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And the "raised" metal that you do see- it's not raised above the level of the rim, or even close. The depth and heights are not well conveyed in a 2 dimensional image.
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United States
958 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2011  04:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppertop5150 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks liveanddie,

I could not tell from a 2D image if the metal was rasied higher then the rim , If I had seen a pic at more angles it would appear eazier to tell,

My question was what you mentioned " the metal looked higher then the rim and pushed way up " It appears in the pic to maybe/maybe not be higher then the rim and letters around it , so the loose metal was impacted by the die and made a " crater like " appearane pushing some metal outwards.

I was not aware of this every lamination I seen online appears to just have pieces fallen out and a void left behind,
this is the first I seen the delamination metal leave a huge " crater like impact " thats why I thought it might be PMD struck after the mint by some object that pushed the metal up.

Becuase I thought even with a loose piece of delaminated metal it would still be mashed so hard and fast bythe die it would cuase the fields around the loose metal to be flat.

I have also never seen one this big before , most are smaller delaminations

Thanks for the info. I'm gonna have to look closer next dime I get a damaged coin and do more investigating how the damage was cuased
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United States
601 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2011  05:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add liveandievarieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It really helps to be able to have had a few of these in hand. What one understands by studying it under a loupe, can't be impressed upon someone with digital photos, not that the photos weren't great, they were fine.
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foundinrolls's Avatar
United States
3507 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2011  12:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Liveanddievarieties,

That was a great explanation:-) of how that coin ended up looking the way it does:-)

Thanks,
Bill
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cladhunter13's Avatar
Canada
1161 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2011  9:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladhunter13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All I can say is thank you for the explanations. I was uncertain and had the same questions as Coppertop about what seemed to be a build up of metal along some of the edges. Thank you for sharing the coin and the explanations. I enjoy reading the posts on this site and welcome any and all the knowledge shared. Sometimes you have to sift through the a bit of drama but the end result is always worth it. This is definitely a hobby that has a lot of passion and some times it spills out for everyone to see. As the Cent Turns...These are the coins of our lives. :)
Pillar of the Community
United States
601 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2011  10:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add liveandievarieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
lol, nice.
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