What I Think Ebay Should Do To Help Our Hobby And Others.

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MINT_MARQ Pillar of the Community United States 1000 Posts	Posted 03/11/2011 11:24 am So here is my utopia thought of the day. ebay is full of counterfeits and fakes. Whether is is Chinese Morgan dollars and Trade dollars or whether it is fake designer handbags. To restore their reputation I think ebay should do the following: Since they should have access to a payment method from all sellers...I know they made me give one so they can get there fee. They should create a very stiff monetary penalty for being caught selling a fake item...and posing it as real. I am talking like a $5K fine. Then they should create hundreds of secret shopper accounts that are manned by employees with feedback so they look legit. Then they should go to the Chinese Copy selling guy and buy from them and ask..."Do you think you could send the coin without copy on it" when they receive the item breaking their rule...fine the seller, take their money and increase ebay's bottom line. Maybe they could even pose as chinese fake sellers to try to catch the resellers here in the states. Same fine. This will never happen...but don't you think something like this would help stem the flow of fakes coming into the states. Anyone want to borrow my soap box...I am done with it for the day. Report this Post to the Staff

fcrazo Pillar of the Community United States 651 Posts	Posted 03/11/2011 12:26 pm Sounds good, but too many rats now. Report this Post to the Staff
JMerrick Valued Member Guatemala 357 Posts	Posted 03/11/2011 12:31 pm Marq, ebay can't financially penalize it's customers for their behavior. Some of the sellers are dishonest, clearly, but others are ignorant. People would actually have more of a problem with ebay if the sellers actually knew what they had ALL of the time. As for setting up 'fake' accounts to lure the counterfeiters out. Anyone with about 5 minutes to spare can easily find fake coins, sometimes even in fake slabs, for sale. You can buy dozens, or hundreds of a coin, or you can buy a 'sample'... If ebay attempted to import counterfeit coins knowingly, they would be in violation of federal law. Frankly, I'm rather surprised that the Secret Service takes such a lax view on the subject, since U.S. coinage has never been demonetized, so any counterfeit is clearly a federal violation. But, the truth is... They don't take it seriously. If the American government can't take this problem seriously, what can we trust them with? One thing ebay could do, is require a mandatory period of not less than 7 business days for returns. "If you don't want to allow a return policy, don't sell your coins here." Edited by JMerrick 03/11/2011 12:36 pm Report this Post to the Staff
littlemoney Pillar of the Community Canada 902 Posts	Posted 03/11/2011 12:42 pm Here is the Canadian government's view on this matter. http://www.counterfeitcoins.bc.rcmp...contentId=-1 Report this Post to the Staff
brokencompass Valued Member United States 451 Posts	Posted 03/11/2011 12:44 pm ebay should have a ebay Verified seller Branding. Where an seller can volunteer to join at a cost and should agree to forfeit his deposit if a fake coin is found. Also, even otherwise ebay should take all complaints seriously. I caught a seller use the picture of another seller, the exact same coin. I mailed ebay as well as both the sellers but ebay responded saying that they can't do anything about it unless the original seller itself complains. They sure should do more or I am going to start going to my LCS often and using ebay as the last resort. Report this Post to the Staff
mkman123 Pillar of the Community United States 3184 Posts	Posted 03/11/2011 1:35 pm definitely ebay needs to do something about sellers selling counterfeits as well as decreasing their fees! Report this Post to the Staff
JMerrick Valued Member Guatemala 357 Posts	Posted 03/11/2011 2:07 pm To illustrate my point above, in less than one minute, I found this beauty available online... $21.99 if you buy one, $15.99 each, if you buy 100 or more. SLABBED! (Fair warning... The problem of the wrong date and mint mark being shown in the photo is the seller's error, and not mine.) Now, I apologize for the length of the quote below, but it illustrates how these guys work. Quote: look at this item, very beautiful and lovely. Such a nice item is best suited for personal collection or a valuable gift,a display as well.Believe it will bring you much pleasure ! All the pictures are taken ourselves. For most coins we sell, we have more than one. After we sold one coin, we relist the same listing and use the same/ So you may not receive the same coin as in the picture, however the coin you'll receive will be in the same condition or even better in condition as the coin in the picture. The coa No or the coin No will be randomly selected if it is not declared clearly in the description. Bid with confidence We've done business in silver and gold coins for more than 10 years. this is one of the biggest professional stores of selling Chinese gold and silver coins, specialized in panda coins and lunar animal coins. Our business license is authorized by ebay in US. Don't hesitate to get excellent service and great itmes from a top-rated platinum power seller with 100% positive feedback ! Item specifics - US coins -- ---- -- Grade: Mint Location: Certification: Certification Number: Strike Type: -- Circulated/Uncirculated: Circulated 1880-O Morgan dollar, BETTER-DATE, DARKER RAINBOW TONING FREE SHIPPING! YOUR WINNING OFFER IS YOUR FINAL TOTAL GENUINE US. Morgan dollar WITH AREAS OF MAUVE, INDIGO, OLIVE, GOLD, AQUA AND MAGENTA RAINBOW TONING ALONG INSIDE OF OBVERSE RIM, WHILE SOMEWHAT SPLAYED ALONG REVERSE SURFACE * EVERY HAIR, FEATHER AND LETTER LINE NEARLY INTACT * A FEW TINY CONTACT MARKS, BUT NO SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE * LIGHTLY CLEANED IN PAST * VERY NICE EYE APPEAL * THE COIN PICURED IS THE EXACT ONE YOU WILL RECEIVE. (Please note: There is no guarantee this particular toning is natural or will grade with an eBay-approved numismatic company.) To see more quality Morgans, click on "See other items" in the box at the top right corner of this page. About this site This is a very safe, buyer-friendly site. My customers are always satisfied. If you are at all skeptical, I encourage you to browse my seller feedback comments. On the rare chance that you are not pleased with our transaction -- for any reason -- I gladly accept returns in exchange for a full PayPal refund. Shipping is relatively fast. Coins are typically shipped within hours of payment completion through PayPal. Most customers receive their packages in under five business days. Reduced shipping is provided for those who purchase multiple coins in the same day. In the highly unlikely event that your coin does not arrive within seven business days, please send an email so that we may locate your coin or remedy the situation to your complete satisfaction. Imaging Please note that these images are highly accurate, dead-on photographs that make buying/bidding decisions easier for you. The vast majority of my coins are undamaged. However, if a coin happens to have a significant flaw, you will not only see it in the photos, but it will be stated in the listing write-up. Grading I tend to grade coins rather conservatively, so that customers need not overbid or pay inflated prices. Sometimes a coin's grade may be difficult to judge -- even among experts. In those cases, I encourage you to determine the grade and condition based on the above photographs. I cannot guarantee that any particular coin will qualify for grading by an eBay-approved, numismatic company, such as NGC, PCGS ICG, or ANACS. There are many reasons -- some of which seem relatively trivial -- that can disqualify a coin from certification. ALL COINS GUARANTEED GENUINE My ebay seller rating is 100%. Buy with 100% confidence. ___________________________________________________________________________ Terms & Conditions Sorry, I accept PayPal only -- Please make certain that your PayPal billing and shipping information is current. My guarantee -- All coins are guaranteed 100% authentic. Seven-day, money-back guarantee provided holder has not been opened or damaged. Integrity -- The coin you see in the photos is, in fact, the coin you will receive. Shipping/Insurance -- Insurance is included in the shipping cost. Literally every package is shipped either free of charge or below actual cost. Payment window -- Buyer is obligated to make payment within five business days of auction's end or transaction will be canceled. Shipping destinations -- Shipping is available only to ebay customers with physical addresses or P.O. Boxes in the United States. Communication -- Please email me with any questions you may have. I will likely get back to you within 24 hours. Thank you so much for visiting. Shipping Free shipping to the USA and International. Shipping Duration: 14-21 working days. We send items to you via HongKong airmail. Return Policy We strive to provide the best customer service possible. If you are unsatisfied with products you've purchased from us, we'll assist you with a prompt refund or exchange. Returned items must be in the original sellable condition, if not the return will not be accepted. In the event that a suitable replacement is not available, a refund will be issued in the form of the original payment method or check. Buyer is responsible for all return shipping charges. Shipping and handling charges are non-refundable.Auction, shipping and handling are clearly stated above, if you have any questions please ask before bidding. Thank you! Contact Us Welcome. please feel free to contact us. If you are satisfied with Our products , please give positive feedback and all "5" stars rating to us.Thank you. The first 3 paragraphs were written by the 'seller'. The rest of the quotation is supposed to be his words, but the text is actually copied from a real ebay listing. With stuff like this out there, is there any wonder greed gets the better of people who really should know better? Edited by JMerrick 03/11/2011 2:13 pm Report this Post to the Staff
SsuperDdave Moderator United States 23522 Posts	Posted 03/11/2011 5:33 pm The US government can do precisely nothing about a counterfeiter operating offshore. Nothing. ebay could conceivably make a significant dent in coin counterfeiting operations, if they hired enough people to cover all of ebay's coin offerings. Something approaching three-quarters of a million individual listings, as I type these words. Extrapolated, and I understand many listings are not just seven days, but let's call it a hundred thousand new coin listings per day, and you gotta catch them in 24 hours. And you have to study every single one. How many people do you suppose that would take? And every one of them would have to be professionally competent to detect counterfeits with absolute reliability, because the first successful lawsuit from an unjustly-injured seller would kill your business for months, notwithstanding the legal costs. Now, here's the punchline: Coins are not ebay's largest counterfeiting problem. ebay's biggest problem with counterfeiters is about branded clothing, jewelery and accessories. Shysters throwing fake name brands on cheap knockoffs. Remember the number I quoted for total coin listings? There are 400,000 women's handbags listed. 300,000 pairs of women's jeans. 200,000 pairs of men's jeans. 600,000 watches. All of these, prime categories for exploitation, products which are almost impossible to identify as counterfeits with the information available in an ebay listing. You wanna talk about the other collectibles categories? Stamps? Cards? Memorabilia? Antiques? Historic? Who honestly thinks ebay can make a dent? And all of what I said is immaterial, because all of the counterfeiters are there only because the buyers are there. People who are willing to try to win the lottery. You think that's going to change? Um, no. The only thing you can change is your own degree of awareness. Report this Post to the Staff
Maineman750 Pillar of the Community United States 3592 Posts	Posted 03/11/2011 6:21 pm Quote: People who are willing to try to win the lottery That has been my point all along..human nature. Report this Post to the Staff
vermontensium Moderator United States 16679 Posts	Posted 03/11/2011 7:10 pm You know, If I was caught here in L.A. selling fake Rolex's or Louis Vitton handbags on the street or in a shop, I would be placed under arrest. Why should ebay be any different. At least make these shady sellers lives miserable by at least investigating them. swcoin.ecrater.com Report this Post to the Staff
JMerrick Valued Member Guatemala 357 Posts	Posted 03/11/2011 8:25 pm Dave, I absolutely agree with you to a point. The sellers need to be held accountable.... But, look at it this way. Imagine you owned a large space, say on La Brea Blvd., and used it to house an antique mall. All you did was collect rent for space... You didn't actually sell antiques. Now, built into each rental agreement was a clause along the lines of "vendor is responsible for any claims regarding the authenticity of any article they display in...." In your mind, and probably your lawyer's, you've covered yourself. So, Customs Enforcement and/or the Secret Service come in, and determine that 12 of your 66 vendors are selling counterfeit merchandise. They want to come after you, for harboring such business, or because, as an 'antique mall', the merchandise was technically offered for sale in your space, and technically, any sale was under your business license. Bear in mind, you wouldn't know the difference between a Philippine Peso and a Mexican Peso... You wouldn't know the difference in a Dirk van Erp hammered copper lamp, and a Tiffany shade. Honestly, there is no conceivable way you would know that the merchandise was spurious. Should you be held responsible? I am by no means a fan of ebay. Quite the opposite, in fact. But, I can't bring myself to condemn the entire entity, based on the actions of a segment of their user base that happens to be unethical, dishonest, and greedy. Report this Post to the Staff
vermontensium Moderator United States 16679 Posts	Posted 03/11/2011 8:41 pm MpI totally hear your point, and I did not mean to say hold ebay responsible for the shady and quite frankly, criminal actions of a few. Here is my dilemma. There is absolutely no accountability for these unscrupulous sellers. They get reported, slapped on the hand, and continue doing it. I don't know what ebay can do to halt or at least curb this but, if they drastically changed their policies and consequences to sellers (who do this), who knows, maybe things would improve. swcoin.ecrater.com Edited by vermontensium 03/11/2011 8:44 pm Report this Post to the Staff
MINT_MARQ Pillar of the Community United States 1000 Posts	Posted 03/12/2011 08:02 am Quote: if they drastically changed their policies and consequences to sellers (who do this), who knows, maybe things would improve. That was what I was trying to express in my opening post. And as Superdave pointed out...this problem transcends many ebay categories...Not just coins. SuperDave also mentioned the amount of manpower it would take to catch them all. But you could compare it to "Drunk Driving". The cities would have to put thousands more police officers on the road to catch the thousands upon thousands of idiots that take to the road under the influence of alcohol. So what do they do about it? Turn a blind eye to the problem? Tow them and the car back to the bar, give them back their keys and tell them not to do it again? No, they put a few cars out and the catch a few and penalize them harshly with jail time and fines. And the knowledge that you may run across one of these police officers and the financial burden it will cause serves as a deterrent to others. People will still try to sell fakes and people will still make bad decisions and drive drunk...but hopefully with consequences, it might help. Report this Post to the Staff
Ugly Pillar of the Community Canada 1733 Posts	Posted 03/12/2011 09:53 am I consider the issues of scams across all categories to be same as the problems in coins. ebay didn't move to close sales of counterfeits of Canadian coins until the RCMP put some hurt on them and explained their liability in the matter, like sitting in jail with the other big business leaders that scam people. What I'm saying is, without pressure from the correct law enforcement agency explaining to the ebay execs that it's they who will spend time in jail, they won't move on it. There are no replicas of Canadian coins listed at the moment for example. This is at least a start (replicas are illegal here, whether they say copy or not). Further, the RCMP has been serious in acting on counterfeiting complaints when called. They take it seriously, we're a low population country with a strong currency and it's important people can trust it. So get together and get your federal department in charge of currency to take some action. It has to start there in my opinion. Report this Post to the Staff
biggfredd Rest in Peace United States 9104 Posts	Posted 03/12/2011 5:56 pm Quote: One thing ebay could do, is require a mandatory period of not less than 7 business days for returns. "If you don't want to allow a return policy, don't sell your coins here." Amazon has their A-Z guarantee, covering everything for non-delivery to fakes. ebay has been trying to be like Amazon for a couple years now--big sellers doing big volumes of genuine stuff, and not having to babysit a bunch of flea market dealers. The catch? Amazon payments. Buyer pays Amazon, who notifies seller to ship. Amazon holds that money for up to 45 days, then pays the seller. ebay, through PayEnemy, is trying to hold money for longer periods, but it's been tough. This is one reason why ebay is getting pickier on how payment is made. The site can only guarantee third party transactions if they hold the purse. Otherwise, claims come out of the site's pocket. Part of the solution is vetting the sellers (which ebay is lousy at), but the bulk is controlling the money. Edited by biggfredd 03/13/2011 2:09 pm Report this Post to the Staff
numismaniac Valued Member United States 361 Posts	Posted 03/12/2011 7:06 pm Wow, that 1878 s is frightening. aside from the pricing is there any quick givaway that this is a fake? I used to send coins to PCGS and know there was a way to look up cert. #s but can you do that if you do not submit any more? What is to stop someone from buying 1000 of those and selling them on ebay? Report this Post to the Staff
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