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Roman Commemorative Questions

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Pillar of the Community

United States
1315 Posts
 Posted 03/16/2011  10:25 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This is the 1st ancient coin I bought and have tried to attribute. I got it on ebay. The seller seems to have a lot of shiny coins like this.

Please let me know if I'm close.

I think it is a Constantine commemorative. Around 330-350 A.D. Made to commemorate the sea battle between Licinius and Constatine over Contantinople. MM... SMN delta (As of yet I don't know what the delta means.) It was made in Nicomedia... RIC VII 196, or 135...or something else.... I'm not sure.

Here are some question I have, if you have the time.....many thanks.

1..How did this coin get so shiny? (it's more bright than the pics show.) Was it cleaned with electrolysis?

2..Is the coin real? ( I could not find another that looks quite like it on the net .... the art work on the obv. seems alot better than that one the rev.) The grade seems to be pretty nice.

3.. Is it bronze or copper?

4.. Should I re-patina this coin? (I do patina's at work sometimes.) It's not worth much.

Roman-Commemorative-Questions

Roman-Commemorative-Questions

Roman-Commemorative-Questions
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 03/16/2011  11:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin was issued by Constantine to commemorate the founding of Constantinople, minted in Nicomedia. It's bronze and is real, it's a common coin and not very valuable. It has been overcleaned which has removed the patina and making the coin shiny.
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td5173's Avatar
United States
565 Posts
 Posted 03/17/2011  12:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add td5173 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
echizento You are wickedly smart on ancient coins. We are not worthy.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16847 Posts
 Posted 03/17/2011  12:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
1..How did this coin get so shiny? (it's more bright than the pics show.) Was it cleaned with electrolysis?

It's been cleaned. Ancient bronze coins almost always look like rocks when they're first dug up out of the ground; they all need cleaning. Electrolysis is considered a very harsh cleaning technique; there are other ways to remove the encrusted dirt from an uncleaned coin, without ruining the detail of the underlying coin like electrolysis usually does. Perhaps the coin was heavily corroded to begin with and electrolysis was it's only hope, but now that it's happened we'll never know if it could have been cleaned better.

Quote:
2..Is the coin real? ( I could not find another that looks quite like it on the net .... the art work on the obv. seems alot better than that one the rev.) The grade seems to be pretty nice.

I don't see any indications that it's fake. These "anonymous city commemoratives" for Constantinople are a fairly common coin design, issued at over a dozen mints throughout the Empire. Mintmark SMN(delta), fourth officina of the Nicomedia mint, is listed as R1 (only slightly rare) in the Helvetica list. The The example on Wildwinds for RIC 196 is from the scarcer fifth officina, epsilon.

Quote:
3.. Is it bronze or copper?

The alloy is usually reported as being "bronze"; it's exact composition probably varied with time and from mint to mint.

Quote:
4.. Should I re-patina this coin? (I do patina's at work sometimes.) It's not worth much.

I personally don't like repatination of coins, either ancient or modern. This coin has been damaged by overcleaning; repatination simply adds to the damage, while attempting to hide the original damage.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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1315 Posts
 Posted 03/17/2011  9:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Sap, for your generous response. Your information is very helpful.

The fourth (delta) and fifth (epsilon) officina is a bit confusing to me. Are they related to the letters of the alphabet ...d-e ...4-5?

Would an A be the first offinca?

I don't think I'll re-patina the the little coin, I wouldn't think of doing that to a modern. I'll just put it away as my first ancient and let time do the patina again.

I'm going to practice attributing ..cleaning...recording the few common coins I have. Then begin to figure out how to collect some nicer coins.

Thanks all.

Edited by Doucet
03/17/2011 10:17 pm
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16847 Posts
 Posted 03/17/2011  10:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The fourth (delta) and fifth (epsilon) officina is a bit confusing to me. Are they related to the letters of the alphabet ...d-e ...4-5?

In a way, yes. They're Greek numerals.

The system we in the West use for numbers - 1, 2, 5, 8, etc - wasn't invented until the middle ages. In ancient times they had different ways of writing numbers, usually using the letters of their alphabet. You're probably familiar with "Roman numerals" - I, II, V, VIII and so on. The Greek system was different. It assigned values between 1 and 1,000 for each letter of the alphabet. Because you need 27 symbols to cover that range and there are only 24 letters in the standard Greek alphabet, they had to use three "obsolete" letters for the three remaining numerals (6, 90 and 900) - letters which used to be used in parts of the Greek world long before coinage was invented, but had fallen out of use by 300 BC.

The full table of Greek letter-number conversion can be seen here, but basically you're correct - A=1, B=2, (gamma)=3, (delta)=4 and E=5.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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SPQR's Avatar
United States
327 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it's overcleaned, but at least it didn't actually damage the coin itself. I've seen edges boiled off, features ruined, etc so this was a not-to-terrible zapping.
As you say, while it's not all that valuable, it is something like 1800 years old, which just flat blows my mind. The lure of ancients, for me. Sorry, being a bit geeky don't you know.
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bwbollom's Avatar
United States
293 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2011  12:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bwbollom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The one in my sig, and posted below has a similar appearance. It was also my first Ancient Roman coin purchase! I like it, even though it has been overcleaned and basically has very little value. It didn't cost much and it's a nice chunky coin...I will sometimes just throw it in my pocket when I'm going to be hanging out with friends who haven't seen a Roman coin. It's always a good conversation piece.
Roman-Commemorative-Questions
Edited by bwbollom
03/28/2011 12:10 am
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