| Author |
 Replies: 18 / Views: 3,612 |
|
New Member
Canada
31 Posts |
Just had grades finalized at 4 canadian silver coins, all were ICCS ms-64 grade. NONE crossed over!! hows this possible, all coins were fairly graded in my opinion, which doesn't mean much I suppose. Seems like quite the odds that none would have crossed at the same grade. Anyone have any ideas whats going on at PCGS?
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
How did they grade them? and what were they?
|
|
New Member
 Canada
31 Posts |
I left the box to not grade them if they didnt match the ICCS grade of ms-64 (default) 1965 type 3 ms-64 ICCS 1961 ms-64 ICCS 1955 ms-64 half ICCS 1945 ms-64 half ICCS all four coins are canadian and graded accurately in my opinion. Can anyone tell I'm fuming?  |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
And PCGS graded them how? less? a lot less? they threw them away?
I don't respect any one companies grading and ICCS does some of the sloppiest drive by dump style grading I've ever seen so anything can happen once you get another interested party involved.
|
|
New Member
Canada
31 Posts |
PCGS didnt grade them at all....i requested them not be holdered by PCGS if they didnt meet equal grade. they will return them in existing ICCS holders. Just $ down the drain thats all.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
OK, so we don't actually know the grade deviation, if we assume 1 point, that's splitting the hair on the 63/64. If you are looking at the coins and feel they are honest 64's then that's what matters. I just can never see the point in PCGS/ANACS etc grading of Canadian coins unless you are specifically trying to sell high value items into that market. I've sold a few coins that required a US TPG and they almost always get it wrong... in my opinion. I'm sorry you didn't get value for your money though, that sucks. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
629 Posts |
I am just curious - it seems that you got these graded since you had hoped that they would be MS65 coins. Yet they came back 64's. Why did you decide to have them re-graded when they are in my opinion, common date except for the 1945 half?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9866 Posts |
PCGS =market grading
ICCS =technical grading
Maybe the eye appeal wasn't there for your coins
I too am curious as to why you would send these coins to PCGS
Edited by DBM
03/31/2011 10:29 am
|
|
New Member
Canada
31 Posts |
These coins were sent in for collection continuity, as all others in my collection are graded by pcgs. Intent wasn't to move up a grade, just to have them crossed at same grade ms-64. These had been sitting around for awhile, just thought i'd have them crossed as I felt they were solid 64's.
|
|
New Member
Canada
31 Posts |
So the coins are a 64 according to ICCS, and will be returned to me in same flips. Pcgs disagrees with the grade although we don't know what they have graded them. Id assume 63. So although I still have the coins in 64 ICCS, I've obviously wasted my money for Pcgs grading. Not sure if I am upset with PCGS as it seems odd that all four wouldnt cross, or with ICCS for overgrading the coins, when they are known for there conservative grading.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
108 Posts |
Quote:
Not sure if I am upset ... with ICCS for overgrading the coins, when they are known for there conservative grading. Why would you be upset with a company that is known to be conservative technical graders just because a known market grader disagrees with them? ICCS gave their subjective opinion that the coins were MS-64, you agreed with them that the coins were a solid MS-64. In comes PCGS, a publicly traded corporate entity, whose legal obligation in this country is to promote the best interests of their investors (ie: profit!). Coinciding their business model with the best interest of the collector only occurs when it is also in the best interest of their investors. Crossing over your coins does not do so. They already got your money with no obligation to you to holder the coins at all. PCGS profited. That's what they are in the business to do. So, really, in my opinion, you should be upset with neither ICCS nor PCGS. Grading is subjective to each company's bias in grading standard. It is much the same as it was between PCGS and DGS. DGS coins would not necessarily cross to PCGS because DGS was a claimed technical grader while PCGS is a claimed market grader. When the market itself changes, then perhaps the ICCS graded coins will cross into PCGS slabs. But at this time, if PCGS is any true indicator of the market, it appears that the market has higher expectations for coins graded MS-64. As DBM said, perhaps the eye appeal just wasn't there. The market has been flooded with new entrants into this hobby over the past decade in the U.S. due to the State's Quarters Program. There are quite a few "newbies" out there that do not yet understand grading and are "Ooh-ed" and "Ahh-ed" by the "purdy shiny" round pieces of metal. Like it or not, these same people are part of the "market" which drives the market graders such as PCGS and NGC. It is not even necessarily a situation where these TPGs are "inconsistent" so much as they are driven by market acceptance. I would suggest that it may be worth your while to be patient until these specimens you are looking for appear on the market in PCGS MS-64 holders. It will most likely take much much longer to complete your set, but I would assume it may save you a lot more money and heartache in the long run. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
It is true that ICCS grades based on the technical merits of the coin (sufaces, strike, luster), while PCGS considers eye appeal along with these technical atrributes.
Having said that, I would say that the past two years ICCS has gotten noticeably more liberal in its Canadian grading, while PCGS has gotten noticeably more conservative. In some areas of Canadian collecting, mint state copper comes to mind, PCGS has been far, far the more conservative of the two companies in its grading over these past two years. As a result, it has become much more difficult to find ICCS coins that will cross at PCGS.
All the more reason for collectors to learn how to grade coins themselves.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
Edited by bosox
03/31/2011 6:47 pm
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
276 Posts |
Americans are a highly insular lot - and coin collectors tend to be quick anal about ... well, grades. Combine the two, and it's no surprise that they're downgrading foreign currency.
|
|
Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
So how much did this little exercise in futility cost?
|
|
Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Anyone remember the pariah TPG that let you tell them the grade you thought it was, and if you were anywhere close, would grade to your specs? |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
Whether Americans are insular, or not, let's see how long ICCS coins hold their value now that CCCS and PCGS are grading them more conservatively. By the way, I saw that Trends recently and significantly reduced the prices of early Canadian cents graded to the "ICCS standard".
Used to be that ICCS was much the most conservative grading company around. Not any more. I also think most of the early, conservatively graded ICCS coins have been cracked out, resubmitted, and upgraded into their final resting places, ICCS or otherwise.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
Edited by bosox
03/31/2011 10:41 pm
|
| |
Replies: 18 / Views: 3,612 |
Posted 03/30/2011 3:45 pm
