Re: If A Coin Needed Cleaning/Polishing, Photo Posted

Too bad about the harsh cleaning but the coin is still marketable from a variety standpoint. It just won't make it into a PCGS slab.

It should be noted that I did NOT post this coin with any dollar value in mind.
When I first joined this forum I mentioned that I was a "error" collector, and NOT a "variety" collector.
This post was only to share with the variety collectors in this forum that a fifty year old ***Doubled Die Obverse (1-0-III) and Repunched Mintmark (RPM#100)*** Lincoln Cent variety coin can still be found in circulation, I did not expect all the negative comments saying it's not worth collecting due to the cleaning that WAS required to show the RPM Variety, had I opted to post the original find untouched, I believe these same critics would have expressed their negative opinion that the photo doesn't show a repunched mintmark.
Anyway, I enjoy visiting this site and sharing some of my USA and World Errors with other collectors on this site without a dollar value as motive to post (and I did post high value errors without mention of value), when that happens it's time to move on.

***data from "The CherryPickers' Guide to rare die varieties - fourth edition - volume one" By Bill Fivaz and J.T.Stanton***

BrokenCoin- I'll be the first to agree with you- some coins HAVE to be "excavated" if they are to have ANY redeeming value at all. This post wasn't about what the coin was or wasn't and argument over what it obviously was wasted people's time.

It's VERY frustrating when people completely overlook the point you're trying to make and bicker about the absurd.

I, for one, REALLY enjoyed the subject of the thread. You're exactly what this forum needs- thoughtful and provocative subjects that make people contemplate issues.

It would be a loss for EVERYONE if you threw your hands up.....I've been there multiple times since joining, but if WE work to outnumber THEM, the CCF forum will be a wonderful place for it.

Thanks very much for sharing, I look forward to your future posts!

-Chris.

In all fairness, trying to take the financial aspect out of coins is kind of like well, skip the metaphor, it's just not realistic.

I've noticed that sometimes, people are offended by the suggestion of value. I understand that that may not be one's primary motivation in collecting, but isn't it smart for everyone to know what they've got?

I'm not trying to pick an argument- just curious about other's perspective on the matter, uh, maybe a new thread would be better for the subject. Anyway, just wondering.

To; Bryan1315 (Moderator),
You can delete this thread at your convenience...
I should be posting some unique error coins from Spain's Euro coinage Tuesday...

How would, on any coin, whether error,variety, or normal would someone like myself know if its been cleaned, or restored, then dirtied again to make look like its not been cleaned as well. I ask this because I went to a coin shop the other day to get some sleeves and saw the owner was selling coins that had said CLEANED on it, but it was a 1955 DDO, the nice one and it was in the 2 thousand $ range? I guess he was being honest, but how would we as non experts know otherwise? Man that was a nice looking coin too.

Thank you Darth! You've re-affirmed what I've thought for a long time now, I'm not crazy!

Initially, in my coin career, I really wrestled with the ethical issues of conservation/cleaning. Here's what I finally understood and have come to firmly believe-

Coin Cleaning- Cleaning makes a coin unattractive and as a result, severely impairs it's numismatic value. I think that there are 2 main sources of cleaned coins-
1. Novice Collectors and hobby enthusiasts. These people are either new to coin collecting, or are doing what they think will increase the value of Grandpa's inherited collection. I see tons of cleaned Lincolns in bulk wheat bags. Most of these are popped out of Whitman folders. Lack of education is the cause.
2. Shady dealers/resellers. Again, lack of knowledge by a flea market vendor or other reseller can be at fault. But the other side is dealers who would rather con a collector out of money than earn it through a relationship of trust. These type are predators in all angles of the deal. I will buy a cleaned coin if it's exceedingly rare, but in nearly all cases, the reputable dealer HAS disclosed the state of the coin. I actually have more respect and trust in a dealer who clearly states the coin's negative issues on the 2x2.

Conserved Coins- As Darth so lucidly stated, a "conserved" coin is one that has been lovingly preserved. Much as a museum curator does what's in his collection's best interest, we love our coins and want what is truly best for them!
Take for example, an AU 1914-D Lincoln which sat in a greasy and dusty setting for a long time, maybe lost behind a stove or fridge for decades. When found, the coin has organic buildup that is caked on and hard. If you try to scrape it off, the soft copper surface will be damaged. (study up and practice A LOT- KNOW what you're doing for the following) A coin lover can use the right solvents and remove the surface debris, to reveal an original and lustrous coin.
A coin that is "conserved" is resored- professionally. Coins of this nature, when done correctly, can certify with any major TPG. This is a procedure of love, as well as common sense.
Coins which are Tooled, to bring out detail are done to deceive, and are not considered conserved.
I have a big coin dealer in town with who I once interviewed for a job with. I quickly realized that his back room was a "coin manufacturing room". He would strip the surface of an XF 19th century copper coin. Then re-tool the surface to increase eye appeal and give it the appearance of having a much more bold strike. Then said dealer applied artificial patina to imitate that of 150 year old luster. POOF! He then had a gorgeous mid grade uncirculated example. I'm not kidding or exaggerating. I wanted more than anything to work in a big coin shop, but I declined the job because it would have literally been selling selling my soul to the devil. I've even contacted PCGS because the dealer was so cavalier as to brag about being able to get his work slabbed, but I don't think they've made any attempt to take action. The problem is bigger than even they have the financial means to correct with their guarantee.

SO SORRY for droning on- as I mature in my coin career, I find myself so strongly wanting to advocate for the collector and little guy, that my ire is easily raised! I truly feel that all of the information above is important for everyone to understand. Again, sorry for stealing 10 minutes of your life!