21 D Die Scratch Or Crack Help

I sure wish that I could help you Ceylon, but my VAM prowess is in the dirt.... Let me take this opportunity to say something that about the die crack guide for the 1921 D though...... I know that various claims are made and bestowed on people who 'have done more for vamming than anyone else', but what sorts of contributions are they really? John Roberts, Alan Scott, and Dave Barker would rank very high on my list, but the guy who founded vamworld would have to be number one in my eyes.... vamworld is the premier site for the hobby, and is what keeps vamming alive... Although I am not a fan of this founder on a personal level, I have to give credit where credit is due..... it is my belief that he is also the originator of the 1921 D die crack guide..... while this guide is an absolutely wonderful thing, it is far from being all inclusive.... The only other person that I know of who compares in knowledge of the 1921 Morgans is that guy that we know as SuperDave..... if he can't help on this one, I seriously doubt that anyone could (and that includes LVA).

Thank you Mr B

It's a lock on 1DM.

The chip in between the lips -- Although I can somewhat see a circular feature you describe, to me it's not quite "perfectly" circular -- make sense?

As per the pic -- You and OR VW may use it. It's your call. I just go over there / read leisurely / leave quietly (I am not a member over there).

Also, why does the page say "If you recognize these obverse die cracks, please speak up:" Mine have those 2. -- The crack by M and the star runs all the way to the designers Intials and stops at the edge of the hair.

I can try and get you a better shot of die scratch at N. It was tough to get that shot with my limited abilities.


Zee, It's cos of SD and his well rounded knowledge / skill set as it relates to Morgan's that I was able to learn all that I have learnt so far. Straight up and to the point.

PS to SD
I have some better pics of the one we discussed from sometime ago. I will post it one of these days and have made no further headway. I just cannot capture all that I want to with that coin.

Hey, easy, Zee.

My mustache isn't *completely* white yet, and I can't grow a goatee. Furthermore, I cannot abide Dos Equis.

Not to mention, it's no longer realistic for a man to aspire to being "cool" again, because this has already happened:



It's all downhill from here. I heard that, once the hand touched the shoulder in that pic, it became physically impossible to even enter the building until he removed it.

Back to point you 2.

Dave, Pics of the crack from M / * to designer initial. I cannot get get a good pic of the lips.

Not so much with 1921's, zee. Any number are known to transect the front of the face and a few the lower hair, proceeding from the rim, and "right down the center of the wreath" is almost common, it's on so many VAMs.

Remember that one I detailed for NLP coins a while back, with the crack going straight through the cap & head?

This is stuff which ought to be added to the VAMworld detail listing, Ceylon62. Bigger/better detail is required - do you by some chance have a scanner?

No scanner with moi.

On the chip in lips -- Are all 21 D's supposed to have them or is it some of them?

My mistake/misunderstanding..... I somehow thought that all of these lines were thought to be scratches.....



Yes, interesting about the prevalence of scratches on such a hard surface.... For them to transfer to a coin, they would necessarily be of a certain depth..... so I might think that there could be a common cause in many cases.

You mentioned hardness tests... I have heard this before elsewhere, and find it as fascinating as the drunk press operators banging two dies together to produce denticle impressions.

Would not such a test be performed on the opposite end of the shaft? Would not the grinding of the flat on the shaft side suffice as an effective test? If such a test were to be performed on the design, at what depth or effect would be the go/no go determination? Was annealing and hardening of steel such a new and untested technology in the 19th & 20th centuries that a test had to be performed at all, (and only randomly at that)?

In my opinion, Ceylon62, if anything the "scratch" traveled straight through the "N" and reappears above the serif, pointing at the denticle. These scratches are fairly common on Morgans, but are usually perfectly straight.



I wonder, if you looked at it under a loupe, whether you'd see the rest of that scratch through the inside field of the "N," more faintly than the images can depict. These kinds of scratches are fascinating - I cannot imagine any Mint process which would create them, but they're there and they're definitely on the die.

Likewise the dots. Zeewool, I can't say I'm completely onboard with the "hardness test" theory, either, but it's the most plausible of the explanations offered so far for perfectly-circular raised dots on 1921 Morgans. Ceylon62, have you by chance been able to determine if that "chip" between the lips is, in fact, perfectly circular?