Spain Flip-Over Triple Strike 2000 Euro Cent

can we see better pics? its hard to tell but it looks kind of like a vise job to me.

I am also in the process of trying to get a better photo of the next Spain error coin that I also sent to SEGS a number of years back, this one is a Spain in-collar rotated triple struck 2001 2 Euro Cent that was struck on a 2000 struck 2 Euro Cent...

Since uploading my original high resolution photos to photobucket decreases the resolution, the next best thing I could offer to forum members wanting too view the coins I post on this site would be to eMail high resolution photos (average 5mb photo) where the receiver could use windows to download the images and zoom in and verify what I post...

This coin shows soft blended overlap between first-strike elements and those elements produced by subsequent strikes. Also, the the first-strike elements are uninterrupted. Both obverservations demonstrate that this is a crude fake. The second (and third) strikes were administered by a pair of fake dies of relatively soft metal.

Since viewing Mike Diamonds comment on a coin he had not personally inspected, and knowing he can be considered one of the Masters in the error coin field, I thought it necessary to add the following information on this piece...
I have had this coin since late 2001 (along with a 2 Euro Cent piece not shown) and submitted it for certification with about fifty other errors to SEGS a few years later... This submission had taken quite a bit longer in turn-around time then my previous submissions... I had telephoned SEGS about six weeks later to inquire about my submission and was advised that my error coins had been taken to a Coin Show in Chicago (I found this odd and assumed they wanted additional opinions prior to holdering the coins), and I should receive my order in about two weeks...
It should also be noted for those not familiar with the Euro System that in 1999 Eleven European Countries switched over to the Euro Monetary System... Each Country had a option to design the Obverse side for their Nation with the Reverse side shared with a common design for all European Member Nations...
Mike Diamond believes this piece is a 'crude fake from a pair of fake dies', again, photos don't always show all the necessary information to form a 100% opinion as many will believe...
It would have been great if our paths have crossed at a coin show and Mike viewed what I consider some neat errors (I used to share a table and set up in New York & northern New Jersey shows from 1999 - 2002 buying & selling error coins)...
Now you have to factor the timeline and designs, 2000 was the second year Spain used this monetary system and chose a obverse design of "The Obradoiro Facade of the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela" for their 1,2 and 5 Euro Cent pieces, with the common reverse of the World view, showing Europe, Africa and the Middle East... Keeping in mind that this was only a second year issue for Spain, and a design as intricate as the Cathedral of Santiago, one would think producing fake dies, even by spark erosion, would be difficult to pass off as genuine... I just do not believe anyone would take the time to produce fake dies this intricate to stamp over one or two genuine mint pieces so they can pass them off as errors...
If Mike was to reply that he believes it was an assisted error done at the Mint with the high quality coin dies, I would agree with him...
In the 10+ years since this piece was struck, I have not viewed another example of this error (another reason I don't believe fake dies were involved) and it's not for the lack of trying as I would comb the Internet daily for world errors back then...
Using SEGS for certification, I have found them equal to ANACS (and a bit cheaper), for the top two, I believe NGC and PCGS are darn near a necessity for high value coins and preventing a purchase of problem coins...
Errors and Varieties in my opinion are not worth what the top TPG services charge (unless they have a high catalog value)even then NGC & PCGS fail to note the coins variety on the holder (this I have experienced personally)...
The few pieces that I did cross over from PCI and SEGS to ANACS averaged the same grades, some would bump up a point while others would lose a point, then again we're talking errors and varieties where one point doesn't make any real difference in the retail or wholesale price...

Mike,
I just checked out the 1964 Cent posted on ebay and one of the red flags for me is that the coins reverse side shows no sign of rotation of a previous strike, I would also expect more detail on the Obverse... I have found numerous fake error coins and currency posted on ebay in the recent few years and no longer use their site, in the past I would warn bidders of what they were bidding on, ebay has made changes where that is no longer possible...
I have spent a great deal of time trying to take high resolution photos of the Spain 1 & 2 Euro Cent coins I purchased some 10 years ago from a seller in Europe, all to no avail due to the plastic slab... I can assure all that both my coins show correct die alignment and strong details on each strike, the 2 Euro cent piece not posted in this forum is a 2000 dated 2 Euro cent that entered 2001 coin dies (could have been a Dec/Jan. timeline) with the obverse side facing the reverse die, the coin was struck three times with a rotation of 90º between each strike, all in collar rotation with clear details of the understrikes, all four strikes are in perfect die alignment (Obv. & Rev.) on each side of the coin... This coin may have had some assistance with the Mint employee's at the time of manufacture, but I don't believe anyone can create fake dies and come close to making a coin with the details anywhere close to what I have...
I've been away from CONECA since late 2005 (I thought it was earlier), if their website shows high quality photos of genuine coins that were struck with fake dies (both obverse & reverse) in correct die alignment and multi-struck (with strong details) over the non error coins to create aftermarket errors, I would consider joining again, only this time I would not want to be shut out like I was as past member #N-3600...
This is one of those posts where we both have to agree to disagree on whether or not this is a genuine error...

Broken-Coin:
Quite frankly, if the people at CONECA noticed the same track record with your error coins that I have from your posts, then it's no surprise that they did not respond to your inquiries.
I claim no superior expertise in errors, but I do have experience as a full time dealer in the stuff. The coins you have recently posted are basically riding that wave of "assisted" errors that have recently coming on the market from both SE Asian countries and various Euro coins.
I'm sorry to say, but I'm guessing you tried your luck with the reputable grading companies and had your coins "bodybagged" before resorting to the non-reputable ones.
We are all free to believe whatever we want, but sometimes reality stares us in the face so sharply that it can't be ignored.

I've been trying to get clear photos of the fields of these coins to show the under-strikes... I've used my digital microscope to take some photos, and just uploaded them to photobucket...
The one problem I have is the photo is quite small, whereas my email photos can be zoomed in and clearly show the details of each under-strike...
I would place my money where my mouth (or should I say keyboard) is and challenge anyone to produce a exact copy to what I have with fake dies (as was suggested by M.Diamond), in the meantime i'll try and get some clearer photos (if anyone here is serious and wants to take on this challenge, please advise)...
As for submitting my coins to NGC or PCGS and having them "bodybagged" is pure nonsense, As I mentioned on this site in a past post, NGC and PCGS are perfect for certifying rare and high value coins, most collectors realize errors & varieties don't carry enough of a premium to cover the costs the top 2 charge...
In the past dozen years or so I have used both PCI and SEGS for certification as they were the cheaper grading services that advertised in the Cherry Pickers Guide, if they were non-reputable as suggested above, why would the latest Cherry Pickers Guide, forwarded by Q.David Bowers allow them to continue to advertise their services if they believed the grading service would do more harm then good...
I guess many focus on the holder and not the coin, and while I never submitted coins to PCGS due to their high prices, I have used NGC and was NOT happy with their service...
I joined NGC for the sole purpose of submitting 2 rare error notes to PMG that cost close to one hundred dollars each to holder, again, these were high value notes that warranted the additional fees charged by the top graders (PCGS was not used as they did not certify foreign (England) currency whereas PMG did), both notes are posted on this site...
I know the coins from Malaysia I posted here are assisted errors, as are some Philippines coins I have not posted in this forum...
The 2003D Quad-struck Lincoln Cent I have posted in the USA Error Forum was submitted to SEGS in a bulk certification shipment as I didn't know the exact population of triple and quad strikes for that year and placed a lower value at the time... Years have gone by since that coin has been slabbed and not finding another Quad Strike 2003D Lincoln Cent anywhere on the Internet, this may be a unique piece that would warrant crossing over to PCGS...
With well over 1,000 error coins on hand, I could post many on this website but chose not to so as not to overwhelm anyone...
In closing, if anyone wants to take on the challenge above and produce a copy of my 1 & 2 Spain Euro Cent errors, we can end this back & forth bickering...

I have sent numerous coins to ANACS for certification and the only time I had a real problem with them was when I purchased a error coin from Fred Wienberg and submitted it to them... This was a double struck dime with the first strike in collar and second strike out of collar ~ the end result was what looked like a large broadstrike with the ridged edge... ANACS holdered is as a MS63 broadstrike and not a double strike... When I contacted them their reply was that the edge ridges may be coin damage from a counting machine...
Asked why this coin wasn't in a "problem" holder if they believed that, they advised that I have the option of re-submit the coin to check for damage, and the grader says it is not a double strike... I forwarded all my ANACS correspondence to Fred Weinberg and we just laughed it off...

I know for a fact that ANACS is very hard on certifying high grade (mint state) Morgan & Peace dollars, Coins that I purchased at the 65 level came back in 61 & 62 slabs...

I am working on microscopic photos for the coin in this thread that shows the details of the understrikes...
When I email the photos from the microscope page to my inbox, I am able to download the images in windows and zoom in extremely close, when I save the photos then download them to my photobucket account, then post the link on this site, the end result is a small photo that places me back to square one...

Should no one take me up on my offer to create obverse & reverse dies and multi-strike them on Spain (dated) 2000 Euro Cent & 2001 2-Euro Cent pieces to prove to me that fake overstrikes can leave designs under what Mike calls the original strike and I call the third strike, the only other option I can offer is to send the images in email format and advise the viewer what to focus on (pick-up-point) when they zoom in...

Besides my believing this is the real thing to the point of backing it up with cash (amount neg.) to produce another one and prove me wrong, it is the time line factor as I've had these 2 coins for 10 years (when the design was less then 2 years old) and numismatic articles on overstrikes from fake dies to create false errors didn't show up in print 10 years ago (at least nothing that I've come across)...

While I would not enjoy being proved wrong, I would look at the fake coin dies challenge as a valuable lesson in genuine error detection and I'm willing to pay the price for this education...

As for the dime I sent to ANACS, maybe Mike can run a Coin World article on broadstruck dimes and quarters with edge reeding (if he hasn't already done so as I let my subscription lapse about 9 months last year during a 2 year long battle in divorce court)...

It's going to take me a little bit of time to post and tag the email photos, should anyone want to check them out to see what I'm unable to post here, kindly email me at

vernonpeterson@gmail.com and enter "Spain Error" on the subject line so I don't delete it as spam...