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Brics Countries Replacing The Dollar With Local Currencies

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Valued Member
Crow's Avatar
United States
63 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2011  10:26 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Crow to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa have come to an agreement to issue credit and grants to each other using local currencies instead of the dollar. Since this is limited to credit and not trade, do you think it will have a noticeable impact on the dollar? Will this be another factor driving up the prices of PMs?
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junior e's Avatar
United States
931 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2011  11:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add junior e to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They are also going to stop buying our T-Bills. As far as the dollar goes Fed-Treasury policy is ripping the shreds out of what is left of our dollar. In my opinion the only Americans who won't suffer greatly from their insane policies are people who hold a good amount of precious metals or those who have no money to be affected.
Edited by junior e
04/17/2011 11:14 am
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vinnycoin's Avatar
Canada
442 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2011  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vinnycoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks for the article! its going to be an interesting year thats for sure.
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hockingzig's Avatar
United States
1450 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2011  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hockingzig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bye-bye $! It's been good to know ya'!
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Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2011  4:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So approximately 20 per cent of the global economy has agreed to manage credit between banks in their own local currencies. All this does is enable them to prop up their banks using low priced credit from other low priced banks in other third world countries instead of having to buy more high priced G7 currency.

Note that no one accepted the local currencies for actual goods... just paper.

In the meantime, the G7 countries allow their banks to extend credit credit to each other in their local currencies .. mainly the US dollar, the Euro, the Pound, Yen and the Canadian dollar. So that's 60 per cent of the global economy and those currencies are accepted for actual trade goods.

OK, so deposits to my bank in Brazil might be used to back credit in South Africa that can be repaid in SA local currency.. why does that not make me feel warm and fuzzy? Further, these are not predictable economies, not even China. As rough a ride as the G7 has had, they are still more predictable than socialist nations that can turn private property into state property at the drop of a pin with no recompense.

This is just maneuvering, paper maneuvers to get low priced credit from each other by the third world with no other way to support their credit crunch and not slow their massively growing population driven economies. Talk about a bubble, they took a page right from Europe's playbook.
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2011  5:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Probably just another nail in the coffin of the ol WORLD RESERVE CURRENCY status....

And why not add to the precious medals going up, and we will see perhaps late Monday....
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 04/18/2011  01:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Since this is limited to credit and not trade, do you think it will have a noticeable impact on the dollar? Will this be another factor driving up the prices of PMs? - Crow

It is quite possible that what we are seeing in this is similar to the ripples that precede a tsunami. This event in and of itself may not be especially consequential but it does indicate that more of the same will follow. If so, then it is likely that subsequent events could be of increasing magnitude.


Quote:
They are also going to stop buying our T-Bills. - Junior E

And why wouldn't they? Even Bill Gross is not buying US T bonds any more. Gross knows a LOT more about bonds and the bond markets than I ever will, so if he thinks that these things are not good investments, it is likely that he is correct.


Quote:
As rough a ride as the G7 has had, they are still more predictable than socialist nations that can turn private property into state property at the drop of a pin with no recompense. - Ugly

No, we are much more sophisticated than that here. Instead, what we do is cut our interest rates to near zero and hold them there so long that the US dollar is rammed into the dirt. This just steals the buying power of the hard earned money that our citizens have managed to save for their retirement without physically grabbing it from them. That's SO much better, right? Uh, right?


Quote:
Probably just another nail in the coffin of the ol WORLD RESERVE CURRENCY status.... - Silverhawk

Absolutely right, Silverhawk... as if it needed any additional pushing in that direction, huh?
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Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 04/18/2011  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry Ed, we're not talking about the same thing I think. I'm talking about physical property. You're talking about money - coupons issued so you can buy things, but it's not property. Hanging onto money that can be converted into financially rewarding assets is.... a choice. One that hasn't traditionally paid out for anyone. Rich people got rich by buying things.. companies, property, service businesses ... whatever. They rarely got rich by making a mattress out of their money and sleeping on it praying the interest gods shoveled a few pennies at them. I make decent money when I want to work, but it's not wealth, wealth to me is land, houses, buildings, intellectual property and software that others pay me to use. They are assets, I can sell them for money, exchange them for other assets, grow food on some them, generate electricity on others.... whatever.

I still don't see this original post as a negative on world reserve currencies, rather I see it as yet another way these third world countries can prop up banks with something even LESS tangible that G7 currency reserves... their own.

But of course, spin is everything.
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2011  1:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Sorry Ed, we're not talking about the same thing I think.

Always possible and, occasionally, quite likely.


Quote:
I'm talking about physical property. You're talking about money - coupons issued so you can buy things, but it's not property.

Perhaps this is a semantics issue. To me, MONEY is the currency of the country where I live. WEALTH is property of various kinds. I know from your post that you do not confuse this issue but to me all too many people do confuse money with wealth and they are not the same at all. Money is not wealth but it is a symbol of wealth.


Quote:
Hanging onto money that can be converted into financially rewarding assets is.... a choice. One that hasn't traditionally paid out for anyone.

Sometimes money can be converted into things and sometimes it cannot. Much of my wealth is in my IRA, which has rules associated with it as to what I can and cannot buy with it.


Quote:
One that hasn't traditionally paid out for anyone. Rich people got rich by buying things.. companies, property, service businesses ... whatever.

A lot of people got rich by buying those little paper coupons called stock certificates. These paper products represent the shares of public companies. I can buy IBM shares, for example, and participate in its growth and earnings as a company but I cannot buy the IBM company. It's worth more than I have!


Quote:
They rarely got rich by making a mattress out of their money and sleeping on it praying the interest gods shoveled a few pennies at them.

I don't think that I was even remotely suggesting this. The fact is, though, a lot of people supplement their retirement incomes via instruments that do not pay particularly well but that are reasonably secure from sudden and drastic price declines. These "pennies", as you call them, are important to them. They can make the difference between being comfortable and being hungry. No, they will not make them rich but that is not really their purpose. Their primary purpose is security plus whatever additional money they can chip in to help pay the bills.


Quote:
I make decent money when I want to work, but it's not wealth, wealth to me is land, houses, buildings, intellectual property and software that others pay me to use. They are assets, I can sell them for money, exchange them for other assets, grow food on some them, generate electricity on others.... whatever.

I have no argument with your position. It is closer to my own than you might think. It's great that you can work to supplement your income when you choose and your ability to work productively is your true wealth. Older folks often do not have that ability or desire. They still need some extra income from time to time, though, and investments that pay interest have been one method of doing that. Is it the best way? Perhaps not but it is indeed their primary method of choice.

As to the world reserve currencies... this is needed to facilitate world trade and I have no problem with it. My problem tends to be with fiat currencies that are completely un-backed by anything of value. Supposedly, the productivity of a nation now backs its currency. That would be fine but only if the money supply is carefully rationed such that the amount of currency in the system actually does represent the true productivity of that nation, increasing and decreasing as needed to maintain the correct balance. For the US, this used to be the case and the dollar had solid buying power. These days? Not so much. WAY too many dollars have been printed and productivity has declined, so the value of the dollar has shrunk considerably. Since every measuring system needs to have a standard and gold and silver have served in that capacity before, we can look at monetary and financial matters in terms of gold and silver if we choose to do so. Seen in that light, gold and silver are maintaining their value quite nicely but the dollar and some other currencies are falling like dropped rocks. This is why we have such expensive commodities these days. It simply takes more of these cheap fiat currencies to buy less and less REAL goods.


Quote:
But of course, spin is everything.

Is it? Or is it much more likely that we just have a slightly differing view of the world?
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Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2011  2:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think we mostly agree Ed as you say. I never believed in the power of my RRSP (like an IRA).

It's like heat... I prefer firewood in an outdoor gasification unit. Why? I like to be the guy that controls the price and quality of an essential service, in this case heat. Same with wealth management for me. I don't like the rules they make for retirement accounts so I don't play the game. If currency goes to pot, I'm covered. If PM's are found in massive quantities, I'm covered. However if a revolution breaks out and they take my land; I'm heading to your house.

Spare a cup of soup?
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2011  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think we mostly agree Ed as you say. I never believed in the power of my RRSP (like an IRA).

It's like heat... I prefer firewood in an outdoor gasification unit. Why? I like to be the guy that controls the price and quality of an essential service, in this case heat. Same with wealth management for me. I don't like the rules they make for retirement accounts so I don't play the game. If currency goes to pot, I'm covered. If PM's are found in massive quantities, I'm covered. However if a revolution breaks out and they take my land; I'm heading to your house.

Spare a cup of soup?

Any time, friend. In the SHTF scenario, helping hands are always welcome!

I agree with your comments on the retirement plans. They do have an excessive number of rules and whatnot but a lot of this is defensive on their part to prevent people from abusing the system... and they will, of course, if allowed to do so.

I once had a 401k plan, which is probably THE best retirement idea ever... and it was completely unintentional on the part of the US government. It just sort of unfolded this way because a very creative gentleman named Ted Benna interpreted IRS rules in a way that no one else ever had before... and the IRS agreed with him! In any case, my 401k was the reason I was able to retire at age 55. Without it, I would have been working until my pension kicked in at age 65. The juicy part is that not only did my 401k allow me to retire early, it also pays about 50% better than the old pension plan would have. Not at all bad, crummy rules and all!
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