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 Replies: 14 / Views: 3,556 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
Hello Folks! I know the term "puttied" means using a compound to fill in surfaces on a coin. However I have no idea what is used, how the results could be more than temporary and how can you I.D. a coin that's been "puttied" Any Information on this? Is it a new practice, widespread, used only on certain metals etc. etc.  .....Mike Here's a link to coin related definitions that mentions Puttying under "Altered Surfaces" http://www.pinnacle-rarities.com/glossary.html A great list of coin term definitions! I found a definition on the PCGS Counterfeit Detection page.... Dental wax and auto-body putty also are used for surface alteration. Dental wax is particularly subtle because it leaves a thin, clear layer on the area where it is applied. This substance is used much like nose grease. Nothing is contained in the wax to discolor a coin's surfaces, but sometimes, after the water and alcohol have evaporated, a white powdery residue can be seen. Auto-body putty and other car products were first used on Morgan dollars to duplicate frosty devices or cover blemishes on Miss Liberty's face or the eagle's breast feathers. PCGS has seen this method used on three-cent nickels, where the head of Miss Liberty was "frosted" with these compounds. This is not considered a very deceptive method because it is easy to spot after having examined a few of the coins on which it was previously used. This is also considered a form of artificial frosting, therefore could have been listed in the next section on chemical etching and artificial frosting. It is listed here, however, because it is more a method of surface alteration than a chemical process. Edited by Mike
04/21/2005 03:52 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
That is a term that I have not heard. What I think it may be referring to is waxed coins. Some people will use a light wax pencil to gloss over the coin to give it a nice natural appearence, while covering small nicks and hits. If the coin is in a plastic holder or 2x2, it is hard to detect.
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Valued Member
United States
421 Posts |
I have heard that term too. I was under the impression that is was like Bondo-ing a car on a micro, coin level. But, I can't say I have ever seen it...that I know of anyway.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
I always thought it was the same as "thumbing" where skin oil is rubbed into blemishes to reduce flashing.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
980 Posts |
Funny you bring this up. Big discussion on this with good pics at CU:
http:// (046) Not Allowed - Auto-Removed &threadid=384479
Don
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
Thanks for posting that link. It amazes me that lengths that people will go to in order to misrepresent a coin. The worst part is that this process seriously detracts from eye appeal and value.  |
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Rest in Peace
 United States
2884 Posts |
SFDukie, thanks for the link. The pictures posted there are the only ones I could find even searching google. On one of the google sites the word "puttied" directed me to the link of definitions that mentions the term in its glossary under altered coins. That link directed me to a PCGS Counterfeit Detection page and that's where the definition came from. I think ND hit it on the head when he said waxing was about the same thing. C/U is a bit rough for me but they do get great topics on a lot of the posts. I still did not find an answer as to the longevity of the process except as illustrated on C/U with the coin turning hazy. I assume the idea is to get it under glass undetected! Mike Edited by Mike
04/21/2005 10:56 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
980 Posts |
Mike,
Agree with your feeling re CU. There are many knowlegable folks, but boy, some of those posters need daily therapy sessions!
Don
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
Waxing is an old technique and fools many people looking to add some value. What appears to be a nice dull AU coin, ends up as a VF after the wax is removed. This type of altering targets the group who are looking for something for nothing.
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New Member
United States
44 Posts |
Reading this thread has made me wonder if another process could be used to "improve" or "restore" coins. I used to work for a very high precision machine tool company (we could hold part tolerances to within 4 millionths of an inch) and we often rebuilt old equipment. While the inexpensive bearings were automatically replaced, many of the larger and high precision bearings that were used could cost approaching ten thousand dollars each to replace (up to 8 of them per spindle), not to mention up to a year lead time if buying new ones. We used to send these to a guy who "repaired" this sort of bearing. I am not sure of what processes he used, but he could do amazing work and turn galled or otherwise damaged bearing balls, rollers, cages and races into like-new components, and did this work on a micro level. Of course these repairs were not a mere "bondo" as any metal he added also had to hold up under the high stress levels. I don't normally deal with that person anymore, but it would be interesting to ask if he had ever tried his amazing restoration skills on coins. I'll have to see if I can find his contact info.
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
The "King of Counterfeiters" invested over $100,000 of his own money (most of his retirement fund) to produce and manufacture almost perfect casino tokens in $10 (his main token), $25 and $100 denominations. It took him well over a year before he successfully used his tokens in the slot machines all over the country. After watching that story on the History Channel (Breaking Vegas), I guess nothing would surprise me. Because the crooks are better than my own grading and authentication skills, I resigned myself to the fact that I need a lot of help before I make a major purchase. Unless I can trust the seller (there are a handful) or if the coin has been graded/authenticated by the top TPG's, I really can't trust myself to make a major purchase unless I have "help". Toned, dipped, added mint mark, altered mint mark, whizzed, waxed., puttied..the list goes on and that list is way beyond me. It is these people that sometimes drive collectors away from the hobby. Edited by zakgold
04/30/2005 8:35 pm
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New Member
United States
44 Posts |
zak, if you feel toned or dipped coins are coins to stay away from, your purchasing of only slabbed coinage will not prevent you from acquiring those types of coins. This is not merely my opinion. You can read it right on any of your favorite top TPG's websites. Those attributes are not automatic disqualifiers for being slabbed. |
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
But...I have grown to appreciate toned coins. A nice Buffalo (l@@k left), a nice Morgan and even some IKE's really look great toned. I call it "nature's paint brush".
But there are coins naturally toned versus those stuck in a oven with sulpher...so throw another variable into the grading/authentication issues. Makes you want to scream!
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
cwtokenman, I think the odds are much better going with a major TPG In most cases mistakes made by them can lead to compensation. Otherwise, your just left hanging out there. At any rate it is a sad state of affairs to have to be so careful. Today,even low end coins are being altered. Mike  Edited by Mike
05/01/2005 04:55 am
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New Member
United States
44 Posts |
I agree the tpgs have value in determining the attribute of authenticity, but that is about it. As far as what I collect, primarily Civil War and Hard Times tokens, the guarantees of the tpgs frequently have limited/no value. NGC for example, indicates on their website that their guarantee (evidently the entire guarantee since other limitations mention specifics such as grading and/or authenticity) does not apply to any copper, bronze, or copper-nickel items encapsulated before April 1, 2000. Even for those items encapsulated after that date, the guarantee expires on the 10 year anniversary of encapsulation. I am a big advocate of collectors gaining as much knowledge as possible themselves rather than having to depend on what others tell them.
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Replies: 14 / Views: 3,556 |
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Posted 04/20/2005 9:35 pm
