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Interesting Dilemma

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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2011  9:43 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Yesterday afternoon, my step-Dad was talking with me about the stock and mutual fund account that I manage for him. It started with $100k last June and is now up to $113k. Not bad, since it is invested pretty conservatively.

Anyway, Dad was worried about the stock market, the dollar, and the government's debt problems. He asked if I thought that we should put this money into gold or some other PM. I was a bit surprised by this but said that I would look into it.

One thing has been bothering me lately and that is the way that the market is acting. One sector after another has pulled back with retail being the latest one last Friday. It is entirely possible that this market is hovering on the verge of a sell-off. It looks like a market top to me, with lots of sideways motion and whole sectors in retreat. This often precedes a major price drop in the stock market... 10-15% would not surprise me a bit.

My thought is that QE2 and the lack of much progress in the US budget cutting negotiations is weighing heavily on this market. QE2 has undoubtedly propped up this market more than the usual economic factors would have done without it. It will be ending soon... sometime in June... and no one really knows what will happen when it ends.

Because of the above, I am looking very hard at going to cash for a month or two to give me some time to evaluate the effects of QE2 ending and the world and US political situations. Long-time investors have said "sell in May and go away" as a means of avoiding the usual summer market doldrums.

Of course, since PMs often do well when other investment categories are struggling, it is tempting to put at least part of this money into some PM ETFs. Two of them would do it... a gold ETF, such as GLD, and the "white metals" ETF that holds silver, palladium, and platinum. The goal here would not be to make a lot of money but rather to have a strong holding position for the next month or two. My reason for using ETFs for this is that they can be moved into and out of very quickly and we do not have to store a lot of physical metal. We can also use trailing stops for downside protection, which we can't do with mutual funds.

What say the PM boys and girls?
Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2011  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd vote for PM, with reasonable stops.
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hockingzig's Avatar
United States
1450 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2011  10:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hockingzig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ed_b,I have a similar dilemma. I have a tax-deferred annuity that is almost entirely invested in stocks. I have been having the same kinds of feelings as you about the end of QE2,etc. I think a move out of stocks is the way to go,my problem is I don't really want to go to dollars but I am reluctant to put it all in PMs right now. I have decided to stand pat with PMs for now but I want out of stocks for the most part. I think the end of QE2 will make the dollar rise and the stock market will drop big time. Based on that logic,cash would be the way to go.The real unknown is what does the end of QE2 "really mean",because there will be continued support but nobody is saying what form it will take. Cash appears to be the safe bet.
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2011  01:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seems like 5 to 10 percent pm's of course is always a good plan, but perhaps your mother and step father need an investment plan that is more now than later, hence physical pm's NOT being right for them, so as they can reap some of the rewards now and I am sure make sure the rest of the fam is taking care of after their time has past....

I think the paper pm's make more sense in that case as well as some other investment plans, as you said get in, turn a profit an get out quickly, being that the timing is right of course....

I know a great guy who comes in to the bar in mid 60's. Just lost his wife to a rare disease, as well as two daughters years back. One who was just eleven killed in a train accident. Real nice guy, always friendly never complaining about his lousy hand so to speak, as money here is a fine example of not being everything. He made all his money in oil, and now said he investing in those new BMW two wheels up front one in the rear motorcycles, sorry as the name escapes me. He owns one, so I am sure that has much to do with it, but he seems to think it is the next big thing, may be worth looking into....
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2011  05:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The AUD seems to have temporarily stabilised at around USD $1.06. The obvious reason for the rise of the AUD is the converse weakness in the USD.

There is a body of comment in financial circles in Australia, that the AUD will not go much higher, and there is increasing pressure for the AUD to fall, brought about by declining commodity prices in the medium term, and perhaps at last a rise in the USD, as QE2 diminishes.

Commodities in this case defined as base metals and coal, which are big export earners for Australia. PM's are a different animal in this case.

Perhaps Ed B's policy could appear to be safe, sitting on the sideline for a short time, more heavily into cash, with a stronger possibility of more U.S. share market upside later on in the year.

My Two Cents worth. My main super fund seems to be in about this position, when I look at the asset allocation.
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GoThunder's Avatar
United States
830 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2011  11:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GoThunder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
QE2 has undoubtedly propped up this market more than the usual economic factors would have done without it. It will be ending soon... sometime in June... and no one really knows what will happen when it ends.


If you listen to Peter Schiff its not a given QE3 is off the table. I don't know if I can post a link here or not but I'll try to post his last interview on CNBC "Fast Money" show 5/17/11.

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000022569

My wife and I are both long GLD in our IRAs. Out of the IRAs I like physical PMs.



Edited by GoThunder
05/23/2011 11:43 am
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2011  7:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'd vote for PM, with reasonable stops. - BiggFredd

Yeah, I am kind of leaning towards that. Maybe not with the whole pile of money but with at least some of it. Gold seems fairly stable. I like silver and palladium quite a bit but they may be a little too volatile for this account.


Quote:
I have decided to stand pat with PMs for now but I want out of stocks for the most part. I think the end of QE2 will make the dollar rise and the stock market will drop big time. Based on that logic,cash would be the way to go.The real unknown is what does the end of QE2 "really mean",because there will be continued support but nobody is saying what form it will take. Cash appears to be the safe bet.

I agree, Hock. We are both in a similar situation here and seem to have about the same view of the market for the next couple of months. Cash would be good and so would some PMs... I think. We'll see.


Quote:
perhaps your mother and step father need an investment plan that is more now than later... - Silverhawk

I definitely agree with this. My folks are at that age where there may not be much "later". The good news is that this account is less than 10% of their net worth and they have listed me as a contingent beneficiary. My step-Dad was telling me yesterday that I needed to watch what I was doing with this money because his gains or losses would become my own one day. I would be VERY careful with this, regardless of what happens to it someday and told him that.


Quote:
He made all his money in oil, and now said he investing in those new BMW two wheels up front one in the rear motorcycles, sorry as the name escapes me. He owns one, so I am sure that has much to do with it, but he seems to think it is the next big thing.

It could well be. I appreciate the tip on this but it looks more speculative than I should be having in this account. It is also likely to be a small part of BMW's earnings, even if it is quite successful.


Quote:
The AUD seems to have temporarily stabilised at around USD $1.06. The obvious reason for the rise of the AUD is the converse weakness in the USD.

There is a body of comment in financial circles in Australia, that the AUD will not go much higher, and there is increasing pressure for the AUD to fall, brought about by declining commodity prices in the medium term, and perhaps at last a rise in the USD, as QE2 diminishes. - sel_69l

The currencies from a number of countries have been quite strong for the past several months, if not longer. These include: Australia, Switzerland, Norway, and Canada. These seem to be the commodity exporters, for the most part. The US has a considerable commodity basket of its own, with coal, gas, timber, PMs, fish, and agricultural products of all kinds. I am wondering if one of those Ever Bank CDs that holds a basket of currencies from these countries would be a good bet. I believe that they have 3 and 6 month varieties and it is FDIC insured. Might be worth a portion of this money as an investment.


Quote:
If you listen to Peter Schiff its not a given QE3 is off the table. - GoThunder

Peter Schiff is one of those guys who has predicted 5 of the last 2 recessions and 3 of the last 1 depressions. He seems to have a "chicken little" attitude towards investing... the sky is ALWAYS falling, in his opinion. Still, that does not mean that he is wrong all the time... just most of it. He does have some things to say with which I agree, though. Whether or not we see a QE3 is not the done deal that Schiff suggests. We might see it or we might not. The Fed will be more likely to test the economy without QE3 before they commit to doing it. They will wait a bit to see how the economy responds before starting a fresh round of it. I agree that if they do have a QE3, it will be bad for the dollar and good for PMs.

Thanks much to all who responded. I like to gather as much info and hear the opinions of others before making my final decisions. I will carefully consider everything that you all have said here... appreciate it, guys!

If I had to make the decision right now, I would very strongly consider about a 3-way split among cash, a strong foreign currencies CD, and some PMs. A combo like that should do OK, come what may.
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