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 Replies: 15 / Views: 2,115 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4618 Posts |
I bought this on ebay from a seller who does not sell many coins. It was in a Dansco folder in the 1909 slot. He buys estate items and sells them on ebay. It shows no signs of polishing or wear, is reflective across most of the coin and is deep red. The only problem is it does have some areas in the letters that have corrosion. I haven't touch any of the surfaces, so I don't know if it would come off. How do you tell a Proof from a Business Strike on the Indian Head coins? Both sides are mirror like even though this shot doesn't really show it. When I bought it, it was a scan of the coin still in the album and the surfaces looked flat. The price was only $6. Any help would be greatly appreciated.  ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!! 
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
You should remove the coin from its holder and take a photo of the edge.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4618 Posts |
Thanks, I'll set up and shoot it. Can you tell me what I'm looking for?
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
A proof strike should have sharply squared rims while the rims on a business strike would be more rounded.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4618 Posts |
New edge photo. Looks square to me, but let me know. THANKS! You can also see that the surface is mirror-like. The rough surface is reflected across the coin's face.  ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
I'm guessing the coin doesn't look as "brassy" as the first pics?
I cracked open my Snow guide, which states there is just one proof die pair for 1909:
"Minute die lump on denticle below the edge of the 1"--I'm not sure what that means.
Edited by DVCollector
05/26/2011 8:51 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1817 Posts |
Nice coin, particularly for $6.00, but I really doubt it's a proof. The edge biokemist is talking about is a sharply squared edge sometimes accompanied by a wire rim where the metal flowed during striking between the planchet and the die. The majority of classic proofs are struck twice and evince this rim. The Rick Snow attribution is useful, but he's discovering new RPDs all the time, so there might have been more than a single die pair for 2,200 proofs. Proof or not, you got a great coin at the price you paid.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Is the "stuff" in the lettering white or light grey in color?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4618 Posts |
The "stuff" is grey. I REALLY didn't expect a coin this nice. The coin has mirror surfaces on the obverse and reverse. At first I was sure it had been cleaned as I've never owned an IH that was red. It shows no swirl or hairline scratches even at 100X magnification. I thought Proof because of the deep mirrors. Now if it's just a business strike, what would the value be? If it's a Proof? Should I send this in for grading to make sure? I don't grade coins, but I do guess,so if I had to put a number on this it would be a MS-65DMPL, but the "stuff" would knock that down. If YOU had this coin, what would you do. Starting at $6 makes it nice. I don't think I have much to lose.  THANKS for everyone's input! I took one more shot.  ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4618 Posts |
*DVCollector*
I DO see what I would call a "Minute die lump on denticle below the edge of the 1" It's the only lump on any of the denticles below the date. I'm not sure it's the same as the lump the Snow guide is talking about, but I'm doing some research to find another 1909 Proof with a good photo. Maybe HA.com will have one.
And the brassy look is what I THOUGHT I was getting. I just figured it was a cleaned coin. I mean six bucks, I just wanted a sharp looking strike. I never thought of mirror surfaces.
Still looking, wish me luck! *crossing fingers*
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
Edited by Yokozuna
05/27/2011 2:11 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
My guess (and it's nothing more than that) is that it might be an early business strike.
IIRC, proof cents back then had a sandblast or matte surface, not mirrored.
You might see if Rick Snow can tell you anything from the pix. If it isn't a proof, even a 65 wouldn't be worth slobbing.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4618 Posts |
Well, HA.com has one that shows the die lump under the 1 and my coin has the same small lump in the same place. The photo on HA.com also shows two shots of the coin. The straight on shot looks brassy, but the shots taken with light from the sides shows mirror fields with no sign of a brassy look.
While I have no delusions that my coin is anywhere near the value of the one on Heritage, I'm going to have to send this one in for grading to make sure. Wish me luck!
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Yokozuna, I was following a hunch based on the even, flat color of your first pic. But, pics cannot replace the coin in hand.  Sometimes, later IHCs are replated to appear more UNC. Such coins will be missing "cartwheel" luster, planchet graining and toning normal for a 100+ y.o. bronze coin. Just something to rule out when looking at any bright UNC IHC. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
659 Posts |
Quote:
proof cents back then had a sandblast or matte surface, not mirrored. Not Indians, just Lincolns. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
The reason why I asked about the color of the "stuff" is that I suspect it is residual polishing compound that gave the coin its shiny brassy appearance in the first place.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4618 Posts |
Okay, that would make explain the stuff on the letters. I'll have a dealer that I trust look at it. He'll know if it's a proof or not, it's just that he's about 50 miles away. Thanks again for all the help.
Ben
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
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Replies: 15 / Views: 2,115 |
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Posted 05/26/2011 6:28 pm
