1885-CC VAM

Mitch, (bad news first)...... unless someone has an example of this same coin with the crack, I highly doubt that anyone will be able to identify the variety without a closeup picture of the date.

Now the good news..... to the best of my limited knowledge, there are only three varieties of 1885 CC Morgans..... The very best person to determine which variety this coin is would be YOU..... you can look at the photos of these three varieties as well as a VAM expert.... here is the link:

http://www.vamworld.com/1885-CC+VAMs

I do not think that vam-1 exists.... so scratch it off as a possibility.

Vams-2 and 2a are the same die pair, so unless you have clashing on the reverse, you can scratch vam-2a off the list...... so what you have left are vams 2, 3, and 4.

Zero in on the date only (forget die cracks which are not only unlistable, but can occur at any time in the life of a die)...... vam-4 has a very heavy dash under the second '8'...... vam-2 has a substantially lighter dash in the same location...... vam-3 has no dash under the second '8'.

Look at the photos of the dates on all three of these varities on VW..... it should be super simple to memorize these three date varieties before you return to the dealer.... one quick glance at the date through a loupe will tell you which one it is.

Heh, I am very far from being 'the man' Mitch..... in fact, I really don't know much at all about vams (maybe just enough to make me dangerous)....

(From what I can ascertain, only the vam-4 holds a premium over the other two)....Good luck with the negotiations!

Here are those photos...as good as I could get with a 16x loupe and my canon digital.

It does have a dash under the second eight, although it isn't the 'thick' dash.

And Zee, sorry if my gender specific comments were off the mark! lol You may not be a VAM 'pro', but I still really appreciate your help. You're good in my book (which is due out next fall..ok, maybe not).

Thanks to you too, Dave. I think it is a 63, and he wants $650 for it (although he was talking about a $50 premium for the die crack...go figure).

Ah, the pictures tell a different story....(to me)..... I would say that at first glance (with my idiotic thoughts on "forget die cracks"), this is either vam-2 or vam-2a (although I don't see the clashing that might be expected from 2a)...... That obv radial crack coupled with the apparent lack of rev clashing (between the bird's left wing and the top leaf clusters of the wreath) seemed odd.

To me, it looks as though the neck point is pointing directly at a denticle (rather than between two denticles, as on the VW photo)..... I looked at the obv cracks next..... not the same as the VW photo of vam-2 or VAM 2a (but this is definitely neither vams 3 or 4 either).

The reverse looks to be that of vam-2, but the obv is something else (unless it is the faint dash under the 8 that is the defining feature of this VAM designation).

Could even such a simple year and mm, (with only three or four VAM designations), be another fatality to the die classification virus? I can understand that if there can be no distinction made between two dies, then they could be considered the same, but when two dies are obviously different, why not make the distinction official?

Is there a possibility that this may be an important coin, or is it a multi-die VAM?

edited to add:

Hey Gene... How have you been Buddy? You've got some water up in Montana right about now don't you?

Everyone knows about grading and value except for me Mitch.

Now that the weather is warm, I spend most of my time outside, and I only have time to read some threads, and the ones that I do respond to, I usually hijack and carry way off track..... I am trying not to do that here, so let me just say that if the dealer wants to know what VAM it is before he will sell to you (a very unique concept in my opinion), then let it be vam-2 or 2a..... but, I could see your particular coin going any one of three ways if it were submitted to the supreme designator of vams.....

It could be called vam-2 if the clashed 'n' is not transferred.

It might be vam-2a if there is a letter transfer.

It might be an entirely new VAM as I really do not believe that your obverse is that of vams 2 or 2a (and definitely not 3 or 4).

Zee, your lucky. The weather still stinks here in Washington so its mainly indoors with the coins for me.

I don't think his selling it is dependant on the VAM (he doesn't even like VAMs, or varieties and errors for that matter). I'm under the impression he is hoping to squeeze a few extra bucks out of it. If it went to NGC I think it would come back a 63 or 64, depending on the grader and what kind of day he is having.

Thanks again for the help. I hope you are enjoying Montana, Gene. My wife and I have been talking about moving there for some time now.

Yeah Dave, ...that is exactly what I was trying to say (really)... I just can't relate as well as you.... (well, that's my story anyway, and I'm stickin' to it).




I don't know, I just assumed that it's origin had already be decided.

Could it have something to do with metal displacement in the master die or working hub if the dash is found under the third digit or specifically the second '8'? Were not the first three digits supposedly imprinted simultaneously, while the last digit was added later? (I could be way off on that)..... Personally, I have not seen any date yet that would lead me to think that all four of the digits were not applied at the same time.

I still think that there must have been a more mechanized method for impressing the date into the design than a hammer and hand punch.

while I SEE the 2A REVERSE,is confirmed.... I have to agree the Obverse is something new...