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What If It Is All Wrong?

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Valued Member
Ozzie's Avatar
Cyprus
349 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2011  12:24 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ozzie to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi folks,

as you may know markets go up and down and fundamentals for precious metals have been heavily discussed in this forum but what if it is all wrong? What if market manipulation, rule changes etc cause it to fall over?

Regards,
Ozzie
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Earle42's Avatar
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2011  2:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The problem with "what ifs" is that they exist in the realm of what could/might be. They are not real.

The funny thing is that PM buyers/sellers all have to calculate which "what if" they think is more likely to happen.

The facts are that as long as the current admin keeps killing our dollar by printing more and more, then the actual buying power of the dollar will sink. Hence it will take more face value paper-backed-only-with-debt to buy an ounce of silver/gallon of milk.

Silver has retained its relevant value with goods throughout most of history. So it has to become more valued in US dollars as the dollar sinks.

However ... political manipulation can/(has) alter/ed the market - for awhile. But political agendas can only "fool" some of the people some of the time.

Now if we get a pro-American-business government in place, the debt is reduced, and we have a strong country again - then the PM market will either stabilize or prices will go down as the dollar is strengthened.

I am no expert though and admit it. This is just what I have been able to glean in quite a bit of time of self education on the matter.
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Valued Member
United States
284 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2011  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add christian_cyclist to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Market manipulation is always a possibility everywhere. For the most part, people like us here are just small fish swimming in a large ocean. The transactions done by large corporations and governments dwarfs us all. That said, even if there is some market manipulation, the free market will always correct itself. Suppose someone is manipulating the twinkies out of the silver market. At some point that market will dry up and the manipulators will leave. The prices and volume will adjust themselves. Hopefully somewhere along the way the manipulators get caught and punished so the manipulation ends before the market is destroyed. Manipulation is not good. Fair is fair and it should stay fair. The market is always bigger than the manipulators.

-- Boris
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Tim Stroud's Avatar
United States
2661 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2011  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tim Stroud to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If silver ever again dips below $10 I will buy, buy, and buy some more. "Junk" silver that is, I love that kind of stuff.
Valued Member
United States
259 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2011  8:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chasinva69 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
diversification. The only free lunch there is. Don't put all your eggs in the PMs basket.
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cointagous's Avatar
United States
1143 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2011  8:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cointagous to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Metal is cyclical in nature...just look at the past. Difference here is the size of the cycle because of the current state of the world economy. When the fear passes so will metal prices but from what point I havent the foggiest of ideas.
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junior e's Avatar
United States
931 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2011  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add junior e to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Today on CNBC four people were talking about what was going on with gold. All four concurred that at this point in time gold is no longer a precious metal per se, but that it is now a currency. They said that there was too much going wrong with theYen, the Pound, the Euro, and last but least, the US Dollar. This theory puts gold in a much higher position than just another traded commodIty. It now has taken on a role as a measure of those fiat currencies as opposed to a metal for a traded price. This was the first time that I've heard gold described in this manner. They also felt that the bottom for gold prices is now so intertwined with the value of the major currencies that it would be a miracle if gold made a big drop in the future. In other words, in their opinion gold is a far less speculative commodity than some of the other industrial commodities. I hope they're right.
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2011  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
In other words, in their opinion gold is a far less speculative commodity than some of the other industrial commodities. I hope they're right.

I agree, Junior. In all measuring systems, something has to be the standard. At one time, the British pound sterling was that standard. Then came the US dollar.

Now that most of the fiat currencies have shown their feet of clay, gold is emerging as the standard of financial value. Everyone realizes that gold is precious, that it has been used as money for thousands of years, and that there is no way for any government to wave a pen and create more of it.

The other PMs have been buoyed up by gold, rising in price as gold rises. Silver, palladium, and platinum prices are all up substantially over the past few years.

Unlike gold, the white metals have considerable industrial uses that add to both their desirability and their consumption, and therefore their prices. Their volatility can be higher as well since there are more forces pushing and pulling on them from various directions. An investment in palladium, for example, could be seen as a bet on the chemical industry (catalysts) and on the auto industry (catalytic converters). Silver can be a bet on the electronics and solar energy industries, where it is used fairly extensively.

As far as coin and bullion collectors are concerned, we have considered the question and have made / are making our choice. The question, of course, is, "Do we want to keep our savings in US dollars or in something that has intrinsic value?". It is a reasonable assumption that an ounce of gold purchased today will be worth more in 15-20 years than the equivalent amount of paper dollars. Yes, there have been times when this was not the case... such as 1981 through 2001. Buying in at an unsustainable price peak can, indeed, be hazardous to your wealth! By buying regularly, though, we can dollar cost average into our PM positions and avoid this problem.
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