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Help With US 1861 $20 Gold Piece Value?

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United States
8 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2006  09:46 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add BeornLS to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi All,

You have helped me in the past and I have another coin I would like to get the estimated value of. This is an 1861 U.S. $20 gold coin. This belongs to a friend of a friend who is in her 70's or 80's and she has had it since she was a very young child. I do not think the coin is for sale at this time, she just wants to learn a value of it. ***email address removed by Susanlynn9 for security reasons***
Thanks again! Jeff Smith
Help-With-US-1861-$20-Gold-Piece-Value?
And here is a link to a higher res scan. Please note this is a scan of a photo, so the resolution isn't the greatest.
http://jalan72401.com/gold.jpg
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
United States
5877 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2006  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is important that she get this coin authenticated through one of the top TPG's if she ever decides to sell it. I would estimate the condition I estimate the condition to be AU50 by your pics. In that condition, it's worth $30,000 according to Red Book.
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United States
8 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2006  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BeornLS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the reply Susan. I have a couple of questions...why is this one worth so much? I saw one end on ebay today for around $750...same year, etc. Is this one different?

What would be her next step to have it authenticated? I would hope she would put it in a safe deposit box if the value is anything close to $30k...

Thanks in advance,

Jeff
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
United States
5877 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2006  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Her coin has the O mint mark showing that it was minted in New Orleans. There were only 17,741 of these produced, making it quite rare. The 1861 no mint mark (Philadelphia) is only worth $1000 in the same condition according to Red Book.

I would suggest sending it to ANACS for grading/authentication. Here is a link to their website:
http://www.anacs.com/

Their phone number is (800) 888-1861. Their submission prices are very reasonable and there is no membership fee as there is with PCGS or NGC.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2006  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with Susan, the PCGS price guide lists the NewOrleans 1861 $20 liberty head in Au condition is 42,500.00 and in MS-60 they list it at $70,000.00. These prices are always in the high retail side and you can usually never to expect to get that much at ebay but a coin of this caliber I would get authenticated with a top TPG (ANACS,NGC,PCGS) and then cosign it with one of the top auction houses like Heritage. They have the money to market it well and it may bring close to those amounts especially if they do not come to the market much and there are atleast two collectors/investors wanting the same coin. I am so glad she had you check value before they went and sold it because alot of dealers would see a old woman coming in and offer her a couple hundred bucks for the coin, and the old lady thinking it is just a 20.00 coin this is a great deal selling it for a few times face value but in fact they are stealing it from them and their kids
Edited by Bryan1315
11/02/2006 3:27 pm
New Member
United States
8 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2006  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BeornLS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i can't believe it.....
Edited by BeornLS
11/02/2006 3:48 pm
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2006  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The date/mintmark combo is of historical note- the New Orleans Mint was under federal control until January 26, 1861 when Louisiana seceded from the Union. The Mint quickly ran out of gold for coinage as silver made up the majority of the bullion reserves. Silver reserves ran out in late April, 1861 and the Confederate government had no further coinage capability.

If you have the real thing, you have a real piece of Civil War history and a very valuable coin
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2006  4:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is an absolutely fascinating issue, having been struck under the authority of the Federal Government, the State of Louisiana after it seceded, and the Confederacy. Only 7 have ever been graded MS. This is definitely an AU coin and, for the sake of numismatics as a whole, needs to be in a slab and part of the known population.

I'd agree with Susan regarding the grade, but only because of the marks on the cheek. Its' details are on a par with AU53-55 examples I've observed at Heritage.

In September, an NGC AU55 example of this coin went for over $42,000.

This, if genuine, is a very important coin.
Edited by SsuperDdave
11/02/2006 4:11 pm
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United States
8 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2006  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BeornLS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I am sure it will be authentic. I only wish it was mine at this point!

As I said, it belongs to a friend of a friend. And the story is true, the owner received this coin when she was a young girl as a gift from her father. She apparantly held it all these years and is approaching 80 years old now.

Very fascinating to be a part of it for sure!

Jeff
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2006  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Finds like this happen every once in a while. Last year, a California family took an ancestor's coin to an ANA convention in San Fransisco. The family had descended from a Chinese immigrant who came to California in the 1850s. He saved his first weeks pay- a $2.50 gold piece. That gold coin was passed down through the generations. It turns out that the coin was one of 10 surviving samples (out of 246 minted) of the 1854-S $2.50. The family consigned it to ANR and it was sold a couple months later for $253,000



http://www.coinresource.com/news/ne...rity_ANA.htm
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2006  5:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I beleive these stories will only become more and more popular as the people in their 70's and up start to go to their final resting place, because back in the day families did indeed pass certain things from one generation to the other and valued that family heirloom with their life and wouldn't have sold it if they were living on the streets the family heirloom would be in their sock if it was a coin. Now these days history of ones family means nothing or almost nothing to the generation thats growing up now and if they are left these family relics all they will want to know is what it is worth and how much they can get for it. So I beleive these type of stories will be heard more and more within the next 10-30 years. Of course this is just my opinion and probably alot of family heirlooms wouldn't be worth mentioning except to the family, but every so often someone had the forsite to put things away that they were lucky enough to aquire then and it meant something to them for one reason or another (like the first payment they received in the new country)and in my opinion also the younger generation just doesn't care where they came from or what their family history is. You can tell that by the way people are treating the older generation these days. I am only 36 and I remember sitting around when I was younger listening to my grandfather and great grandfather (when he was alive) talk about the "good ol days" every sunday when the WHOLE family would meet at my grandmothers house for sunday dinner. Now I have a hard time getting my daughter to even visit her great grandfather (the only one she has left) to see if he needs anything when she is driving by his house everyday to go to her friends house and school and back home (so she passes by his road atleast 4 times a day)
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United States
751 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2006  10:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add texasmick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Off topic:
Bryan, you're a real peculiar guy. You're my age, have a daughter who drives, and have an enormous (by my standards) disposable income for coins and cars. What's your secret?
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