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 Replies: 15 / Views: 1,528 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2207 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
14463 Posts |
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Moderator
United States
14463 Posts |
the same site lists value 1883 PR62 at $1400 for non cameo, $1500 for cameo, $1600 for ultra cameo
edit: typeo
Edited by Fuzzy317
06/24/2011 02:20 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Well there aren't very many people collecting Trade dollars by date and mint. Even fewer that collect the proofs as well. This greatly reduces demand for this coin. There might be some demand from type collectors, but they can get other more common dates as well for the type. Sometimes low mintage doesn't mean high values You think this should be more expensive look at one of my favorites, the 1885 Three Cent business strike. Mintage was only 1,000 and it sell for a fair amount less than this Trade dollar is going for. The auction calls this an "Original PQ Trade dollar" I don't think so. Even in their pictures you can see that it is severely hairlined all over from a harsh abrasive cleaning. This PF-62, would rate a genuine slab at PCGS or a details PR-60 slab at NGC. Two years ago it they would have bodybagged it. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2207 Posts |
I did notice that the quality was not that good. But I thought because of the extremely low mintage that it would still command a high price. For example, the 1794 flowing hair dollar will command a much higher price than this Trade dollar in any condition, even though it has almost twice the mintage. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
931 Posts |
Those hairlines look more like furrows. No wonder they submitted it to ICG.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
870 Posts |
Could be that the key date for the series has a mintage of 5!
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Valued Member
United States
92 Posts |
It's in the wrong slab, probably because thats the only slab it can get without the dreaded 'genuine' designation. Looks overpriced to me.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
PF 60 is valued at 2000 on Coin Worlds site. PF 62 is 2500. I disagree with your evaluation of the coin. I do not think the striations are furrows or damage that grave and drastic as you all are saying. The scratches are part of what brings it down to a 62 instead of 64 or 65. Quit the ICG hating dudes. And yes, that is correct. That year was proof only and Red Book listed as 979 minted. Coin World doesn't even give a number. So YES, given the low mintage, the proof only minting and the history of the coin, it DOES demand a high premium. You cant compare values of one type of coin to another. And comparing a business strike to a proof strike is even more off base. That is truly apples and pork roast. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
If I could afford to collect proof Trade dollars by date, I wouldn't want a scratched up piece of crap with little eye appeal from a second-tier TPG. numismedia lists a PR62 for 2470, and only 1890 for ms61. |
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Rest in Peace
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9104 Posts |
Quote:For example, the 1794 flowing hair dollar will command a much higher price than this Trade dollar in any condition, even though it has almost twice the mintage. That's a good question, and as usual, there is a good answer. First, the 1794 was made to be used. When it got bad enough, it was melted down and recoined. Second, it's had about 100 more years of attrition. The trade $ will be harder to find 100 years from now. Third, the 83 were all sold to collectors. From day one, every coin made was kept in a cabinet and rarely touched. Almost 100% of the 94s were used. Fourth, around 1853 and 1873 (IIRC), lots of earlier silver was melted. |
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Pillar of the Community
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3755 Posts |
Second tier? Second tier only because they dont charge twice the amount for their BS grading. Sorry, you cant hald PCGS and NGC up as better TPGs than ANACS or ICG simply because they cater to those who have more money.
I have had coins graded by all 4 of them and the ONLY difference s their fees. Their population reports are not vastly different in numbers as some say based solely on opinion. As a matter of fact, ICG graded lower than expected by myself and the reputable dealer I bought the coins from one one Morgan, and detailed another as being improperly cleaned, which I would have never said about the coin. The other two in the batch I sent in graded exactly as I thought and no higher.
I am not a professional grader. But I do know how to grade coins, and I do not fool myself as to what I have in hand. You can denegrate ANACS and ICG (I know you didnt mention ANACS in this thread, but most times ANACS is wrapped into the "second tier" as well) all you like but I have personal experience telling me there is little difference beyond fees.
Oh, and PCGS giving better grades to the big guys vs average collectors. But thats another subject.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
Second tier? Second tier only because they dont charge twice the amount for their BS grading. Sorry, you cant hald PCGS and NGC up as better TPGs than ANACS or ICG simply because they cater to those who have more money. Actually, I include ANACS on the first tier, but that may just be "hometown" pride.  I'm not basing my comments on preferences, only on the realities of the marketplace. The bottom line is that in general, a pcgs coin will bring more than an ngc, which will bring more than anacs. They all will bring considerably more than icg. How many ms68 Peace $ has each graded? If two or more, yet the other TPG have graded far fewer coins than pcgs, it would indicate more relaxed standards. I would agree with your comments if for example any non-pcgs could be cracked out and get the same grade from pcgs, but we both know that isn't the case. pcgs will typically grade one, sometimes two, points lower. A tpg-other coin will not normally bring pcgs money, anacs and ngc to a lesser degree, icg to a greater degree. This is the market speaking, not me. If you want to prove the market wrong, all you have to do is buy a few thousand icg65 coins with large price jumps between 64 and 65, crack them out and get similar pcgs65 grades on them. Since your contention is that all TPG grade the same, this sounds like a quick and sure way to make a million dollars. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
My contention is that PCGS is no bettr than any of the others, only more expensive. And you can have a coin graded by them, crack it and send it back through a dealer and get a higher grade on a consistent basis. Numerous people have done so. PCGS will grade higher than ICG if the coin is coming in from one of the big guns every time. THAT is a market reality. Same for NGC.
But I tell you what. For the sake of argument I will crack out a non PCGS here soon and see what happens. I will document and see what happens. A one grade difference I dont count as an anomaly since a cranky wife the night before could cause a grader to go down by one. Two or more is an issue.
When it comes to these 4, I feel it is a matter of perception tainted by the folks who have been heading up this hobby (so to speak) for the last 50 years. They are so locked into their opinions that they cant see past their noses.
Regardless, we shall see what happens.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3453 Posts |
Smokeriderdon, I think you are making a good case for buying the coin and not the slab. I only buy something slabbed IF it meets what I expect for the grade and I don't pay any more because of the slab. I have seen coins in many slabs where I wondered what they were thinking. I am looking forward to your results.
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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,528 |
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Posted 06/24/2011 02:00 am
