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Pillar of the Community
United States
1150 Posts |
There has been some good discussion here on the forum in regards to silver lately since the market has dropped some. I figured this article would be good reading for those interested:
Silver: From $30/oz to over $500 by 2020 (And from $500 to $5000 by 2030!) By: Jason Hommel, Silver Stock Report -- Posted 13 January, 2011 Source: SilverSeek.com
In under a minute, I can tell you why that price must happen, and likely when. It seems to me that the public will one day wake up and start buying silver to protect from inflation. Thus, long before, say 10-20% of people buy silver, at least 1% of the American public will buy silver. We can calculate what might happen to the silver price when that happens.
The amount of money in US Banks is about $18 trillion. 1% of that is $180 billion.
Very little silver is left; it's mostly all been consumed, so most of what is available to buy is the annual new mine supply which is 700 million ounces.
$180 billion is $180,000 million. Divide that by 700 million, and we get an implied price of $257 per ounce. Do the math yourself. I'll wait.
But that price would mean that there is no newly mined silver left over for any industrial use, and that nobody else outside of the USA could buy any of the world's newly mined silver. Clearly that can't happen; those two groups would continue to buy silver, competing to buy, and driving up the price even more.
Thus, silver is very likely to be about $500/oz., by about the time that 1% of the American public wakes up and starts to buy silver. That will be the very beginning of the bull market in silver, when measured by "popular demand" -- and at that price, silver would still be very unpopular.
Just remember these key facts, and don't let anyone, or even yourself, trick you out of this developing bull market in silver. Don't try to time the peaks, don't wait for dips, just buy and hold real silver, not any kind of paper silver promise.
What kind of annual gains will that be? Let's see, if silver goes from $30 to $500 in ten years, the compound interest rate calculator tells us that will be an average annual gain of 32.49%, which is about the same as what silver has done in the last seven years, from $4.15 to $30, which is a gain of about 32.66% per year, on average.
Oh, by the way, the 1980 high for silver was $50/oz. That was when M3, money in the banks, was about $1.8 trillion. Today, the monetary base has increased about ten times higher. Thus, the true inflation adjusted peak for silver would be $500/oz. That just further confirms this $500 estimate.
But there are many reasons why silver should surpass the former highs.
Key reasons to surpass the former 1980's peak:
1. Silver is more scarce due to 30 more years of industrial consumption. 2. Paper silver scams are more abundant. 3. Baby Boomers will be retiring, cashing out stocks and draining pension plans that have not yet invested into silver, causing other investments to vastly under perform silver, making silver ever more attractive. 4. More trend investors today will notice the silver bull market and continued gains in the silver price, and invest in it, and carry it to further highs. 5. The US government and political leaders are spending like never before, and the people, even the world over, lack the political will to control government spending which will ruin all currencies. 6. There are no "safe" currencies to run to, leaving gold and silver as the only alternatives; and gold and silver have been in bull markets in all major currencies for 10 years now.
I'm sure you can think of many other reasons, but that's enough for now.
So, the true skeptic may ask, "Yes, but this guy is a coin dealer, he's just pushing his product because he has plenty of silver he wants to dump. Besides, what kind of argument will he come up with to sell silver after it hits $500/oz.?"
Let me answer this two part question. Yes, I do have silver! I have it, because I believe that the price will go up a lot, thus, it makes perfect sense for me to carry it as inventory. I sell it, because few people are able to buy it in bulk like we can, so I use my own stash, and industry connections, to enable others to buy it.
But what will I say after silver hits $500/oz., or nears that price?
I'll say, "Obviously this bull market in silver is just getting started. Only 1% of American public money is buying silver per year. Just wait until at least 10% of US money is buying silver in a year, the price will be well over $2500 to $5000 per oz. for silver."
But I would never make that argument now. Too few people would believe me, and they would think I'm some kind of kook. And people never do business with kooks.
And what will I say when silver nears $2000/oz.?
I'll say, "Everyone knows it only costs 4 cents to print up a $100 bill, and everything returns to its intrinsic value. But used paper, particularly smelly paper, is worth even less, which is useful only for things like lining the bottom of the cages of birds, or burning in the fireplace. Thus, the price for silver will soon only be quoted in terms of gold, and certainly not quoted in terms of any kind of paper money at all." But again, I'd never say that today, everyone would think I'm crazy.
Oops. Too late for me. But it's not too late for you to buy some silver!
=====
I strongly advise you to take possession of real gold and silver, at anywhere near today's prices, while you still can. The fundamentals indicate rising prices for decades to come, and a major price spike can happen at any time.
Sincerely,
Jason Hommel
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2661 Posts |
Quote: Too few people would believe me, and they would think I'm some kind of kook. He is right about that. I do not know about the rest of the world, but I think the U.S. Government would confiscate all PM's from the privet owners if it came to this. Imagine the chaos that would ensue if only 1%-10% of Americans could/would/should buy silver at $2000-$5000 an ounce and it was priced in terms of gold not dollars. Civil uprising and violence just to obtain food and shelter for the night. The rich PM holders virtually enslaving or attempting to enslave the other 90%. Nuclear nations tethering on the edge of rouge such as Pakistan would possibly use their weapons to obtain the metal. I could go on and on but I'll just leave it at that. I will put forward this little tidbit to mull over........... This dude may be trying to create fear to run up the market before the Dodd-Frank act kicks in on the 15th of July and makes it harder for people like him to manipulate the market. Why would Jason write this article? If what he says was true he would keep those thoughts to himself and buy "cheap" silver instead of tell the world and cause a little panic buying thus driving up his price.
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Valued Member
Cyprus
349 Posts |
Silver at $500 per oz. Does that mean gold will be over $10,000 an oz?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
I think there is a copy cat effect, that spreads through us like a plaque. Trends start on the west coast, and take five years to hit the east coast in some cases....
As the pieces continue to fall from the foundation of our economy and nation, and the new commercials continue to spread (Now I am hearing gold and silver pitch commercials on sports talk radio during every other break, and we buy gold and silver signs on every bus corner), I think the common Joe will eventually catch on, and convert some dying dollars into PM's....
Every person that invests/collects coins or bullion, has a certain average number of people in their inner circles (trusted friends and family, if such a thing exists) who know their bus, and what they do, and they will start to say to themselves....."John over here is smart and preparing by turning the dying dollar into PM's, shouldn't we as well sweetheart?"
Combine that increasing demand to come, with the amounts left easily accessed in the ground (not much), combined with years of silver suppression that is now exposed, combind with more debt, and dollar numbers falling, and I think you have the fundamental formula to hit the numbers he speaks of....
And the author surely has an agenda, but that does not change the fundamental numbers listed above with INDUSTRIAL as well as private supply and demand. They are what they are, no matter what the author may like them to be....
Edited by Silverhawk74 06/26/2011 12:24 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
I get Jason Hommel's newsletter by email. For the most part, a lot of what he says makes sense. Silver is declining in terms of production, so even if consumption were to stay the same, which it isn't, then Econ 101 tells us that its price HAS to rise with demand. It is unlikely to rise to the extent that Hommel says, though. At some price point, people will either find a cheaper substitute for it or simply do without it.
Additionally, the US dollar, like most other fiat currencies, is declining in buying power. A person used to be able to buy a very nice car for $5,000. A similar vehicle today costs $50,000. That is a 90% drop in purchasing power. At that same time, a silver dollar cost $1 in paper money. Today, a silver dollar of no special collector value costs $35 in paper money to buy. That is a 97% drop in the buying power of US paper dollars. This trend has been pretty nasty and it is not improving with time. Indeed, it seems to be accelerating, thanks in large part to the massive printing of US currency and borrowing in the past decade or so.
That said, he is hyping the point to a certain extent. When one is vitally interested in something, they tend to get tunnel vision on it and have a hard time seeing much of anything else. This is just human nature.
He also mentions the "baby boomers". Since I am in that age group, I will respond with the thought that we are individuals and do not do much of anything in lock-step with each other. I retired in 2004, yet did not simply clean out my investments, create a huge pile of cash, and then run to the nearest coin dealer to buy the place out. My wealth is now and will continue to be diversified among various types of investments. Yes, PMs are a part of that but a relatively small part. They are my insurance against financial disaster, so like any insurance policy, I did not spend all of my money on it. I do not think that my behavior in this regard is much different, if any, than other Americans in their 50s and 60s. Of all the other folks in my generation whom I know, none of them collect silver or gold, other than perhaps a keepsake or a few pieces of jewelry. My folks have a respectable silver hoard, though, and that is a good thing for them. It too is a small part of their total investment package. But it is there and available for them should hard economic times come.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1150 Posts |
It will be interesting to see what happens, for sure.
Like I said on another thread; Gold and silver are not investments. They are money. Cold, hard cash.
Palladium, platinum, rhodium and all of those...now THOSE are investments.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
931 Posts |
The time will come when I takes a big wad of $100 bills to buy an ounce of gold. Oil prices will also soar and what does mining equipment run on? Oil I suppose. The Gov is going to be taxing anything that makes money and I suppose this 1099 form for purchases over $600 will be a way for them to track precious metals purchases and once they prove that you're a PM buyer they will probably come up with some kind of user tax for investing in PM's, driving the price even higher than the natural ebb and flow of PM prices. When it comes to the trillions of dollars sitting in paper or money markets on the sidelines large gains in PM's are going to be well publicized as will the weakening of the dollar. If ten percent of the money sitting on the sidelines decides that PM's are for real the prices will BOOM. If you sell paper silver or gold the Gov can easily take their cut just like any other stock or mutual fund. Physical metals purchased before the 1099 takes affect will be underground black market tax-free profit and very easy to sell under the counter. My coin dealer has never mentioned the word tax in at least 25 transactions. I plan to find out when this 1099 takes affect and I am putting half of my rainy day mad money into gold and ASE's before it happens. I would rather lose money by going with my gut feeling than sit by and watch the dollar's crash and the skyrocket future of the only real money over the last several thousand years. Gold, Silver, Platinum, and maybe even a little Rhodium.
Edited by junior e 06/26/2011 3:46 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
860 Posts |
To me it borders on a scam. His purpose is obvious, and his reasons are hyperbole gathered mainly from those who have a similar interest, such as bullion sellers, mining representatives. and even various countries whose mints sell overpriced bullion and cooperate with TPGs for slabbing "S" mint coins with no real way of knowing if the coin you get is "one", or a fraud. You read statements that silver is being used in revolutionary technology, such as solar panels, medicine, water purification, etc. that utilize very small amounts: reflective ( mirrors) panels for solar ( check how thin the silvering is); silver has been used in medicine and water purification for over a century, but seldom are they better than current non silver methods.
Silver is readily available for industry or anyone if you are willing to pay the price. But the volumes of contracts for physical silver and the shares of SLV traded are pitiful. Some will say it is being held down by some conspiracy, but really no conspiracy is needed. Few want to pay the price for silver.
If one wishes to hoard silver because they like it, that is their business, but if they expect it to provide them long term security in life, I think they are wrong. If they listen to this guy, they are more wrong. Since I do not have a quantum viewer to the future, this is of course IMO.
Jim
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1150 Posts |
Desert,
So...my question to you is this; What would you consider worth holding? Paper? Computer digits?
Again. Gold and silver are money. Fiat, paper dollars are not. They are a medium of exchange, but not money in themselves.
What say you?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote: The Gov is going to be taxing anything that makes money and I suppose this 1099 form for purchases over $600 will be a way for them to track precious metals purchases and once they prove that you're a PM buyer they will probably come up with some kind of user tax for investing in PM's, driving the price even higher than the natural ebb and flow of PM prices. Yes, the government will be grasping for every dime they can squeeze out of us and there is NO doubt about that at all. Fortunately, there was a true ground swell of opposition to the $600 1099 issue and it has been deleted from the law and signed off on by Obama. As of last April, it was eliminated from the law. It could return, I suppose, but there seems no interest in that from anyone.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote: If one wishes to hoard silver because they like it, that is their business, but if they expect it to provide them long term security in life, I think they are wrong. If they listen to this guy, they are more wrong. Since I do not have a quantum viewer to the future, this is of course IMO. And that is, indeed, what makes horse races... and markets.  For myself, silver is an insurance policy that is affordable, as well as a fun hobby. If I put 4-5% of my wealth into silver and never need to tap into it, then it will be a hard asset that I can pass along to my family. If I ever do need it because of severe national financial distress (not an unlikely event), then it will be VERY good to have. Either way, it is a no-lose proposition. Could I lose money in this? Sure... but that makes it no different from any other investment I have ever made.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
860 Posts |
Desert, Quote: So...my question to you is this; What would you consider worth holding? Paper? Computer digits?
Again. Gold and silver are money. Fiat, paper dollars are not. They are a medium of exchange, but not money in themselves.
What say you? Well first, I disagree that silver and gold are money, different from fiat money. Silver and gold are valued in fiat money. If you buy an ounce of gold with fiat money, you are exchanging from one form to one you think will somehow be more valuable in the long run, but when you go to sell the metal, you will get fiat money. I have owned fairly large quantities of silver on the run up, but I sold it along the way, and only left a small amount to be sold under $40 when the crash came. Some do hang on to their precious metal until death, but they are accumulators rather than investors or collectors. I have no comments on those like Ed_B , who said he was doing approx. 5% of his holdings as PM. That is good investing sense, but I get the feeling that quite a few have more than 25% of their holdings in PM, expecting the USD$ to become worthless in the world and happily breaking up a silver round to buy a beer. That won't happen. The government may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but they have the "power" ( which trumps smart)to keep it from happening. At our expense of course. Outside of my numismatic PM holdings, I have about 5% in physical, but I have rather strong holdings in mining concerns, including gold and rare earth concerns. I would feel different if I thought people, not only in US , but elsewhere also, would elect officials that would put greater concerns on the future well being of their population. But politicians, 95% in my opinion, know they have a good deal financially and work for themselves rather than constituents. We can say this politician will change things,,,,,doesn't seem to happen if they are affected themselves. Sorry, didn't mean to rant. PM and Fiat money are connected directly. Many radical and dangerous things would have to happen among the major countries in the world, before one could say there is a disconnect that makes PM different from fiat money. PM is currently just a commodity. JMHO. Jim
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