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 Replies: 15 / Views: 1,114 |
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Valued Member
United States
69 Posts |
I saw an 1878 P Morgan silver dollar 2nd Reverse MS63 for $100 and the comment says it has Mirror Fields. (I will post the picture shortly.) The shipping is $6, which they will refund if I return the coin. They have a 30-day return policy. The other choice is an 1878 Morgan dollar 7tf - Lightly Toned MS63 for $95. (No picture, and what does the 7tf mean?) The shipping is $8.80, which they will NOT refund if I return the coin. They have a 10-day return policy. Edited by JeffMo
11/14/2006 4:55 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
652 Posts |
First, I'd compare their feedback score. Second, I go to this site and checkout their negatives. http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negsThird, I prefer someone with a return policy. The longer the better. What are the terms and conditions? Fourth, read the sale description very carefully. Fifth, If in doubt, ask for better photographs/scans. Caveat Emptor |
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Valued Member
United States
256 Posts |
Did they send you this photo? If so I would ask them why the photo is of an 1881 morgan.
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Valued Member
 United States
69 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by SE
Did they send you this photo? If so I would ask them why the photo is of an 1881 morgan.
I uploaded the wrong photo. I erroneously marked it as an 1878 on my computer. I just called and they're with customers right now, but they'll send me the 1878 picture in about 20 minutes. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
772 Posts |
You have 8TF, 7/8TF, and 7 TF The first reverse, or first design of the Morgan dollar was with 8 tail feathers on the eagle. There is also a 7/8TF, or where you can see evidence underneath the visble 7 feathers that there were some others there. And the final design, which did not change of the 7 tailfeathers (Or atleast the TF did not change. They did change the arrow design that are in the eagles claws) |
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Valued Member
United States
69 Posts |
Thanks JD. Do all 1878 Morgan dollars (P) have 7 tail feathers, or can you get them with 8 tail feathers or in the 7/8 variety? In other words, does the year have anything to do with the number of tail feathers? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I have to say, a mirror finish on a 1878 Morgan is kind of hard to beleive, I have many many 1878 Morgans and PL and DMPL are few and far between and to even think you can get one of either for 100 bucks I have my doubts. Another thing, I would never ever buy a 1878 Morgan without seeing the Obverse and Reverse but that is mainly because I am a 1878 Morgan VAM collector, and since there is over 200 1878-P VAM's I always try to identify each of them. |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffMo
Thanks JD. Do all 1878 Morgan dollars (P) have 7 tail feathers, or can you get them with 8 tail feathers or in the 7/8 variety? In other words, does the year have anything to do with the number of tail feathers?
The very first Morgan dollar dies were engraved with 8 tailfeathers. When it was pointed out that this was anatomically incorrect, a switch was made to the 7 tailfeather design, which carried throughout the rest of the Morgan mintage. Some 8 tailfeather dies were re-engraved to have 7 tailfeathers, and a few of these dies had remnants of the old design left. These are the source of the 7/8 tailfeather examples - between 1 and 6 "extra" tailfeathers peek out from the bottom of the "real" ones. The prices you're being offered are fair for the grade claimed for the coin. Ignore the "mirror" comment - if the coin were truly mirrored, the price would be $500. Here's the minimum size and quality pic that any experienced Morgan collector could look at and be confident of the grade (within a point or two either way, and both obverse and reverse are required):  Of course, if you know and trust the dealer, you can ignore all this. Edited by SsuperDdave
11/14/2006 6:13 pm
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Valued Member
United States
69 Posts |
Here are the pics. Is the "Mirror Fields" comment accurate?   |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffMo
Here are the pics. Is the "Mirror Fields" comment accurate?
Tough to say. Those are scans rather than photographs, and what I know about scanned Morgans tends to indicate that it's going to be pretty darned bright in-hand, at least. To accurately depict a Prooflike or Deep Prooflike coin, you have to actually set up a shot that shows the coin reflecting something recognizable. The fields of a scanned coin are generally darker in the scan in proportion to how bright the coin appears in-hand. Yours is showing a lot of contrast that way, indicating a lot of luster. I did a little digging as a result of this thread, and discovered that the street value of the coin in MS63PL (to paraphrase PCGS's standard, figure a coin that will reflect 12pt type readably for 3") isn't a whole lot over $100. I stand corrected. The scans aren't large enough to be sure, but I could see that as an MS63 coin. I could also see it AU, though - the little color keys that you look for aren't present in scans, and I worry a bit about the quality of the hair detail above the forehead. However, the seller has an excellent return policy, and if I were choosing between the two original suggested coins, I'd go for this one. Remember, though - you're talking about paying a fair retail price for a pretty common coin, so there won't be much chance to turn it for a profit within the next couple years due to simple lack of demand. I do not mind that, myself - I'm not buying coins to turn them over - but some folks like to take comfort in knowing they can sell their stuff for a profit. What have you for cameras/scanners with which you could post your own pics? We feel very strongly about our responsibility to help newer collectors around here, and you'll find a number of people more than willing to show you whatever you need to know in order to do better in the hobby we all love. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I will go out on a limb here and say that is going to be a pretty nice looking coin going by the scans, even though I just wish they were a little bigger. I cant tell what VAM the coin is because of it being a scan and being so small that you cant really make out the details and a few of the things I look for to make a positive ID on my main focus aren't there so there are alot of VAM's I know it isn't, I just dont know which one it is |
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Valued Member
United States
69 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperDave
What have you for cameras/scanners with which you could post your own pics? We feel very strongly about our responsibility to help newer collectors around here, and you'll find a number of people more than willing to show you whatever you need to know in order to do better in the hobby we all love.
I've got an inexpensive Dell scanner that came with the computer. It's a model A920 if that means anything. I don't even have any coins to scan yet. They sent me these images after I called and asked for them. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffMo
quote:
Originally posted by SuperDave
What have you for cameras/scanners with which you could post your own pics? We feel very strongly about our responsibility to help newer collectors around here, and you'll find a number of people more than willing to show you whatever you need to know in order to do better in the hobby we all love.
I've got an inexpensive Dell scanner that came with the computer. It's a model A920 if that means anything. I don't even have any coins to scan yet. They sent me these images after I called and asked for them.
That'll be fine to start with. Are you familiar with cropping Previews, and using the scanner's maximum resolution? Those two factors together will produce scans of more than enough quality to serve you here. Next, line up a small piece of glass (a 4x6 or 5x8 picture frame glass will do fine), and I'll show you how to make a scanner show the luster of a silver coin. |
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Valued Member
United States
69 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperDave
That'll be fine to start with. Are you familiar with cropping Previews, and using the scanner's maximum resolution? Those two factors together will produce scans of more than enough quality to serve you here.
Next, line up a small piece of glass (a 4x6 or 5x8 picture frame glass will do fine), and I'll show you how to make a scanner show the luster of a silver coin.
Here is a Quarter (worth 25 cents in any coin shop  ) scanned at 300 DPI and saved with Maximum quality, but I haven't gotten my hands on a piece of glass yet. What do I do with the glass, put the coins on top of it, or put the glass on top of the coin?  Edited by JeffMo
11/15/2006 12:58 am
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffMo
quote:
Originally posted by SuperDave
That'll be fine to start with. Are you familiar with cropping Previews, and using the scanner's maximum resolution? Those two factors together will produce scans of more than enough quality to serve you here.
Next, line up a small piece of glass (a 4x6 or 5x8 picture frame glass will do fine), and I'll show you how to make a scanner show the luster of a silver coin.
Here is a Quarter (worth 25 cents in any coin shop) scanned at 300 DPI and saved with Maximum quality, but I haven't gotten my hands on a piece of glass yet. What do I do with the glass, put the coins on top of it, or put the glass on top of the coin?
If my research is correct, your scanner is capable of 600x1200 resolution. A little low, but certainly enough to achieve nice results. Max that out - get the most resolution you possibly can. I scan at a minimum of 1200dpi, and usually 2400dpi, but my goals are different than yours because I collect die varieties. I'm interested in details of die cracks which require pretty big images. Now. The glass is going to go onto the scanner surface, tilted by putting a pencil under one end. The coin goes on top of the glass, so that it is held away from the scanner surface and at an angle to it. You will have to experiment with angles and distances, because some scanners have better depth-of-field than others (you'll find that not all of the coin is in focus when you exceed that). I just bought a new scanner (Epson V100, less than $100 at Best Buy, and initial impressions are that it's a heckuva value for the money). So, I'm just beginning to experiment with it. Here's an early effort using the technique I'm describing:   You'll note that the images are slightly elongated - that's an inevitable result of the angle - but I can say that the colors are pretty faithful to the actual coin. These images were done at 1200dpi, and are about 1/3 actual size (the originals are about 1800px wide). |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
SuperDave I have to tell you, your technique doesn't work on my old cheep visioneer 2400 DPI scanner and you cant even make out any of the features of the coin like die cracks or anything
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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,114 |
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Posted 11/14/2006 4:09 pm
