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 Replies: 11 / Views: 1,295 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
I heard on CNBC that there is an issue whether Greece has actually defaulted. I guess it depends on where you stand marketwise. One group(don't remember who they said it was),responsible for defining such terms as default from a market standpoint declared that ,indeed,the extended maturation dates and reduction in payouts to debt holders constitutes a default. Another group,however,who defines the same terms to decide if CDS holders should get paid if they bet a Greek default would occur,said"no,this was NOT a "credit event",and did not merit CDS payoffs"(actually,that is my paraphrase in quotes,not an actual quotation,it is however the essence of the message). Must be nice to be able to change the rules to protect your own derriere! I guarantee you,if any of us did the same thing it would certainly be a "credit event"!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
931 Posts |
European Central Banks are flip-flopping all over the place to keep the word "default" out of any language referring to Greece, Portugal, Ireland or Spain. Everyone knows that it's simply a matter of time before the inevitable takes place. It's simply a matter of time here in the United States also. Fiat currencies worldwide are being exposed for the shell games that they have been since the late 1800's. Gold and silver may go lower and possibly a lot lower, but if they do it will be thanks to all of the conniving tricks that the worldwide central banks can muster. I've read that a lot of gold holdings including the IMF's may be in the vaults but the metals are actually leased out to other parties and therefore not actually unencumbered holdings of the countries that claim to own the gold in their vaults ( including Fort Knox and The Bank of New York). It really makes me "proud" to pay my taxes to these thieves.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
860 Posts |
Even if they are leased out ( and I doubt it), the lease most likely follows futures contracts, where unless the gold was "sold" ( against government current policy), it would say that the lease could be cancelled by a USD$ settlement. IMO, as I think this is urban legend and no evidence could exist, but just how I would do it.
Jim
Edited by desertgem
07/22/2011 3:59 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
Clue me in....what possible reason would someone have for "leasing" gold, especially gold that is not physically transferred?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2120 Posts |
Quote:
Clue me in....what possible reason would someone have for "leasing" gold, especially gold that is not physically transferred? It goes with the age old saying. "the easiest way to get rich is sell something you dont have" So I own an ounce of gold, I have it in my hand, it belongs to me. I tell you that I will lease it to you for a certain cost. You pay me, I keep my gold in my hand, but tell you that this gold in my hand represents the gold you leased from me. Now I go to someone else and do the same thing, I do this multiple times. I use all the money I've received and do what ever I want with it. Now one person says, "i would like to sell my gold interests" I pay them the amount its currently worth, they go on their way One person says, I want delivery of my gold interests. I buy the the amount of gold and transfer it to them. Everyone thinks that they have purchased an ounce of gold, but really multiple people own the same piece. I do this 100's of times over with the same ounce. Now say you want deliviery of the 100 ounces of gold I leased to you. I dont have 100 ounces, I cant get 100 ounces. But with the money you've given me, I've made much more than the value of that gold. So I tell you 'I dont have it, but ill pay you a settlement equivalent to, or more, of the value and you can purchase it yourself" I just described ETFs. At least, I think my understanding of the process is correct, If not someone correct me. :D Edited by Namachieli
07/22/2011 5:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
931 Posts |
They possibly lease gold in order to claim that they are holding gold without having to pay the full melt price or melt plus premium. Just another way to carry something on the books without actually having to buy it. The article is on the website for Liberty Coin Service.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1450 Posts |
Mostly,just like fractional banking,it makes it look like there is more gold than there really is so price can be manipulated. The government leases it for a fee and the leasee,in turn leases it to others for a fee,etc so there are multiple claims on the gold but it appears that there are multiples of amount. That way everybody can make some cash and prices can be manipulated! This scenario may not be correct but I am sure the concept is right,a bunch of people get to make money from one piece of an asset,just like mortgage derivatives!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
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Must be nice to be able to change the rules to protect your own derriere! No problem, Hock. Governments of all kinds are well versed in this. The Fed does this whenever inflation rises according to their old way of calculating it. Instead of taking action that would lower inflation, they simply calculate it in a new way that shows less inflation occurring. Ditto for unemployment. Simple. Problem solved. NOT! I notice that on many of the financial shows on CNBC and on Fox News that discuss the various debt problems, a new term has come into use. They call it "technical default". I suppose that this is something other than REAL default? From what I can make out of this gibberish, technical default is when creditors get paid but not on the schedule that they were expecting. Real default must be when they get paid less than they are owed. Shrug. The bottom line in all this is that when a nation behaves in an irresponsible way, they can get away with it for a while. Eventually, however, it does catch up with them and the result is similar to what happens to individuals who do the same kinds of dumb things. Consider this... if any of us had a friend who was $45,000 in debt and whose income was declining while he was continuing to borrow and spend money, would WE loan HIM any of OUR money? NO! So, what makes the US government so special that they can engage in this same behavior and not suffer the consequences of it? They are in the same position as the fellow in the above example, except that it is writ large for the fact that the US has 300+ million fellows like him.  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
When the "you're fired" guy with the bad haircut was bankrupt, some financial commentator who shoulda known better said "it depends on whether you value his properties at today's prices, or what they would bring in a stonger economy."
Bull. When spot fell back to $4, try evaluating the silver you bought at $50, see if anyone agrees with a number higher than 4.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Call me crazy, but the market close for Pm's (gold and silver up, platinum back across 1800, palladium back across 800), wouldn't have anything to do with the above quagmire would it?  Edited by Silverhawk74
07/22/2011 10:30 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Just watch Americans dive for PM's if the debt limit is not raised!
Actually a second GFC may follow, because business would be much harder to conduct.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
"not raised" is not an option. the only question is the finagling involved.
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Replies: 11 / Views: 1,295 |
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Posted 07/22/2011 3:57 pm
