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Biggest Doesn't Always Mean Best

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Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2011  03:41 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
After the 80s silver run-up, one company decided to be the place everyone went for silver trades. As I recall, they had a simple name (ABC Bullion?) and were out west (Phoenix?), but not on the left coast.

There are many ways to compete: convenience, hours, expertise, but they picked the one usually 5-8th on the list, price, which is also the easiest to compete with (see "gas wars").

It was pretty obvious. Just about all the silver brokers sold 100 oz Engels for 31-35¢ an oz over, maybe a couple cents more for the prettier JMs and Sunshine struck bars.

They were 30¢ over.

When the established dealers dropped their price to 30¢, ABC lowered theirs to 29¢. I don't remember if it ever got down to 25¢ in the two years or so they stayed in business.

Silver buyers/sellers tend to look at price first, like people who'll put $5 in wear on a car to save $2 on gas. ABC managed to take a lot of business from the competition.

Which means they need to buy product to sell. Easy, just pay more. So instead of the industry standard of 50¢ back, they may have gotten to 25¢ back.

Now there was a reason why brokers had a -50¢+32¢ spread. Years of business showed them they needed 82¢ to stay profitable. ABC may have cut this to -25¢/+25¢, or 50¢. If it takes 70¢ to break even, they were losing 20¢ on every oz (and the largest volume in the industry), instead of making 12¢.

They disappeared, with the usual rumors of bounced checks, padlocked offices, disconnected phones, etc.

A few months later, I got a letter from their bankruptcy court with an enticing offer. I could buy the business, which had a negative net worth of $4 million. I would be getting their client list of some 400,000 anxious silver buyers who had bought some $75 million in silver from them, plus I could save a fortune in taxes by writing off their losses against my own profits. (I may be off on any or all of those figues, I'm illustrating principles here).

Let's look at this:

1) For some ridiculous amount, I can buy a business that managed to lose 5.3% selling $75 million in silver. I could do that buying from Silvertowne and selling to APMEX--two invoices instead of 400,000 customers, and all I need is a phone. Value: zero.

2) I also get a 400,000 person mailing list of the tightest silver buyers on the planet, who have established they'll leave me if they can save $1 on 100 oz. Value: negative. Now if this was Littleton's list of people willing to pay way over retail, that has value.

3) The list is poison anyway, even not counting the buyers who are your competitors. How many on it drowned when the SS ABC sank? "Hi! I'm your new account executive, we bought out ABC... <click> "Hello? Hello?"
Valued Member
rastatodd's Avatar
United States
487 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2011  06:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rastatodd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the in site on how not to run a bullion trading company. Always enjoy reading your posts, keep up in lighting all of us.
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mkfarm's Avatar
United States
667 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2011  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Reminds me a little like this part of our history.

In 1927, the Federal Reserve Board cut the prime
interest rate (or rediscount rate which they Fed banks loan money to regular banks) from
4 to 3.5 percent. The funds that the Federal Reserve made available were either invested
in common stocks or became available to help finance the purchase of common stocks by
others. People were rushing to the market. Many people were taking out loans not only
to buy cars, but also to buy stock.
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junior e's Avatar
United States
931 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2011  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add junior e to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll have to remember that business plan. Lose money on every sale but make it up in volume.
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2011  8:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They seemed to have learned something from that deal, Fred. When they talked Wells Fargo into buying Wachovia, they made them such a sweetheart tax deal that Wachovia was virtually free. Wells Fargo increased substantially in size and in service area but had to pay off and write down some bad loans. It was one heckuva deal from Wells Fargo's point of view. I am sure that in the years to come, this deal will be used as an example in every business school in the country. WFC has gone from a large western states bank to a powerhouse national bank. If and when the economy improves, they should do extremely well.
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2011  10:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just like on the show American Restoration. Rick is trying to teach his son the bus, so one day he can take it over. He quoted a guy to low on a job, then the labor time got too high. So the only way they could break even, the boy had to finish the job by himself with no help. Lesson learned, next time he will quote the proper price....

Same thing with silver, they were trying to under cut the comp, but they forgot that someone else had already did all the leg work and figured that 82 cent spread was vital in order to stay in the black. So they thought they were stealing all the bus, but all they were doing was providing the rope to hang themselves with....

I do agree now, that it is better to buy from a respected established dealer with solid sources an spend a bit more perhaps, instead of trying to save five bucks on ebay, and end up with a silver plated copper round, lol....
Edited by Silverhawk74
07/28/2011 11:01 pm
Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 07/29/2011  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
they made them such a sweetheart tax deal that Wachovia was virtually free

When FSLIC covered S&L, the way they "protected" depositors wasknown as "buy or be bought". If an S&L didn't meet the standards, they could merge with a similar screw-up, plus get some money to fix the problems and produce a bigger, more efficient S&L.

This resulted in stable S&Ls and patchwork nightmares, like the local one with offices all over the state, including one 75+ miles from the next nearest office.

Problems were rarely lack of size, so eventually you just had bigger bundled S&Ls to find new homes. Finally, FDIC took over everything, and incompetently-run banks were closed and depositors paid off.
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