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 Replies: 8 / Views: 992 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1283 Posts |
How does a TPG or a Dealer spot old cleaning when the coin is already tarnished or toned? On many silvers labeled "Cleaned" I cannot tell at all. Also, I've been told that 80% of all old silver coins have been cleaned at some point. If you have a very old, nicely toned coin that has had an old cleaning, how much does that affect the value? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
cleaned and harshlely cleaned is two different things.cleaned, you usually have to look through magnification (of various magnification) to see the lines, with harshley cleaned coins you can usually see them with the naked eye
Edited by Bryan1315
11/22/2006 6:59 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
The answer to your first question is, nobody can tell accurately, always. Certain colors of toning tend to indicate retoning after an old cleaning, and mechanical cleaning is usually visible under the loupe even on a toned coin. Having said that, I just recently got burned pretty badly by a coin in a PCGS slab which had been harshly cleaned and then artificially retoned, yet it still made its' way into a slab.
To answer your second question, there are many coins which lose very little value at all having been cleaned long ago. That usually follows along with the rarity of the particular coin.
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
Hi Troop--
I can add little to what Bryan and Dave have stated. There are dozens (hundreds?) of degrees of cleaning from harshly cleaned with a wire brush wheel to gently dipped in distilled water. The latter degrees may not be detectable by even professional graders. Even worse is when a coin's provenance (history of ownership) is known and it has not been cleaned, but comes back from the graders as "cleaned" because it has lost some of its luster due to its storage container or atmosphere. Very frustrating.
While I wouldn't want to state that 80% of silver coins have been cleaned at one time or another since it would be very difficult to obtain the data to support or refute such a guesstimate, there's no doubt that many older (1700s or 1800s) silver coins have been "touched up" a bit. Many of these coins were cleaned so long ago (e.g., 100 years plus) that they have since recovered to a degree through toning, oxidation, or other natural process. If the original cleaning was very gentle, it may be impossible to detect as Dave stated.
Fred
Edited by Morgan Fred
11/24/2006 6:30 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Looking for ways to spot old cleaning ?
build up in the device details with cleaner fields,, hairline scrates all baically running in the same direction,
darker toning very close around the bust and larger details and rim.
even retoned many of the characteristics of previously cleaned coins can still seen.
Fred is correct that there are degrees of cleaning and some types are undetectable and thus would not affect the value of the coin, any detectable cleaning on just about all or any coins will however affect the grade and in a round about way the value.
Rick
Edited by Metalman
11/23/2006 11:58 am
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
One of the most famous Belgian auctioneers Elsen told me that putting a coin in distilled water was acceptable  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Auctioneer - coin collector ? Something very different about those two activities.
Rick
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
Something else to consider is that an overpolished planchet can look like harsh cleaning when it actually is not. This appears different in that the hairlines run UNDER the design. These lines also tend to go in the same direction just like harsh cleaning hairlines, but with cleaning you will also see the lines on the devices.
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
Makes me wonder how many coins PCGS has bodybagged as "harshly cleaned" because the planchet had been polished before the coin was even struck. This pre-strike non-grading, selectively enforced would certainly help PCGS with lowering its population report curve.  |
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Replies: 8 / Views: 992 |
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Posted 11/22/2006 7:06 pm
