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 Replies: 28 / Views: 6,882 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
Ok...I know I'll get flamed for this (again).  But I really find the whole 1967 $1 diving goose phenomenon on ebay, ridiculous.  Dozens of these have sold on ebay in the last several weeks, up to $250 each. They all have 10 degree rotation. A REAL diving goose has a 45 degree rotation.  Do these people realize they are being misled (scammed) and buying the wrong "variety"? Or are they willing to pay good money to get a "poor man's diving goose", by buying a 10 degree rotation coin, of which there are millions, apparently  They leave positive feedback too, so I guess its ok!  And please dont tell me "there is no definition of a diving goose". I haven't seen PCGS or ICCS call 10 degree rotation a "diving goose"  .... |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2426 Posts |
I will have to agree with you on this one!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts |
Any coin which has a die alignment that is not as intended is "Rotated Die". The "commonly" accepted 15 degrees for TPG as well as MOST buyers to pay a premium is just a guide. As with other area's of numismatics, there are no RULES just accepted terminoligy etc. I have seen TPG "Diving Goose" with 15 deg. of rotation. To be honest, any 1967 Dollar with any rotation is either diving or climbing. To get caught up in terminoligy when there are NO RULES seems like energy you could be spending searching for the THIRD 8 size of the 1908 5 cent coin. :-) Just my thought on a Sunday morning. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2661 Posts |
I have a very nice 1997 Lincoln Cent Greaser I found yesterday with the LB in Liberty missing and the 7 in the date barely visible. I wonder how much these fish on ebay would pay for it if they are willing to pay that kind of money for a so called diving goose. I also have about 50 BU Delaware Spitting Horse variety quarters. Guess I should put them up also and make a little money to buy some silver with. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2426 Posts |
I hear you nickelsguy, however would you pay $250 for a raw 1967 Silver dollar with a 5 or 10 degree rotation?
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1442 Posts |
Sorry nickelsguy, I completely disagree. There IS a definition. Its not "whatever you want it to be". PCGS and ICCS would NEVER certify these 10 deg rotated dies as "diving goose", so there definitely IS a definition, you just dont know what it is. And when trends says the diving goose is worth $1000 in PL-65, and a "diving goose" sells on ebay on $50, or $100...then sorry, its the WRONG coin. The 10 deg rotated die has bullion value only, no more. Some people seem to be making good money on ebay selling ignorance. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts |
Show me in a law book or anything similar..........Charleton's, ICCS, PCGS are only opinions and terms COMMONLY associated and accepted by some......not by all. I will use the 36 dot as an example. There are some coins with dots not below the date.....does this make them not "dot" coins.......if you attempt to "LOCK IN" on a phrase, you are in for an awful bumpy road in numismatics. Wanna debate "Upset dies" vs "coinage alignment".......ICCS can not tell the differance........LOL danlos, my point is that if it is rotated even slightly, diving fits..... the concept must only be satisfied in the mind of the buyer IMO. :-)
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Quote:And when trends says the diving goose is worth $1000 in PL-65, and a "diving goose" sells on ebay on $50, or $100...then sorry, its the WRONG coin.  with Danlos9551--the degree of the goose dive does matter, because "diving goose" is normally understood to be the 45 degree coins; here's one example where a dealer has pictured the correct coin. People will say anything on ebay to make a buck, but it doesn't make it factual.  |
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
Somewhere, off in the distance, is the sound of a dead horse getting whipped...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
It would be simple if ebay only allowed one nomenclature for rotation, which assumes the obverse never moves. All rotations are then 0-180°R CW or CCW. If you want to also use fancy names, fine, no different than the Atheist cents. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
Thats just the thing. You can choose to disagree with the definition of "Diving goose" that PCGS, ICCS, and major experts and dealers have all agreed upon (45 deg dive). You can also make your own collection of 1936 dot cents, with dots all over the place, and call them all "1936 dot". But what would be the point? You know it would be a lie. That 10 deg diving goose will never be the rare 45 degree diving goose. So what's the point identifying the common coin with the rare coin, other than to deceive others? And yes, that person on ebay selling them as such is making some money out of being deceitful and his buyers being ignorant. I prefer to make my money the honest way :). |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
There are lots of just plain ignorant sellers, too. Like the people who looked at the RedBook long enough to find the proof price of their vg 16P LWC. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2661 Posts |
Quote:There are lots of just plain ignorant sellers, too. Like the people who looked at the RedBook long enough to find the proof price of their vg 16P LWC.  Funny you should say that biggfred. there is a pawn shop about 25 miles down the road that does just that, and they openly admit it when confronted about how overpriced their coins are. |
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Valued Member
Canada
60 Posts |
DV Collector, I saw that photo on J&M's too, but it looks to me like exactly the same coin only turned a bit so the goose just looks like it's diving.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Yeah--that's clearly the real deal--and the bidding reflects that.
Edited by DVCollector
08/01/2011 7:17 pm
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Replies: 28 / Views: 6,882 |
Posted 07/31/2011 08:23 am
