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Henri IV Argent Real Or Fake

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1956pack's Avatar
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2011  04:34 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 1956pack to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
sorry had to post 3 times for adding pic's
cornucopia stamp . not sure what 1 means argent means silver in french

I'm sure its a re strike but what year? its 27 grams silver.
artist is most likely Guillaume Dupre. not sure on date? mine is high quality silver .not sure what the number 1 in front of argent means (see edgemark)from my research on the internet some sites say 1801 to 1840 ?
anyways My mom gave me some coins 30 years ago and they have been in a jar until my son found them last week and researched this one! I inherited a lot of French antiques from the 17th to 18th centuries so there is the provenance and I'm sure that's where it came from.
We have researched it for about a week and have found only 3 examples so maybe its a rare restrike? here are links to what I've found

Henri-IV-Argent-Real-Or-Fake
Henri-IV-Argent-Real-Or-Fake
Henri-IV-Argent-Real-Or-Fake

Edited by 1956pack
08/21/2011 03:47 am
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2011  10:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The edge of the coin in the picture clearly shows that the coin was struck in collar on a modern coining press - by my estimate within the past 100 years (most likely more recently).

Manufacture of coins mirrors the progression of technology, so studying both proves helpful. In the 1500's nearly every coin made world wide was hammered. They were struck by hand using two dies. The anvil die was fixed on a bench and the hammer die was loose and held by hand. The coin was pounded into existance and the edge was rough.

This resulted in thieft of silver by cutting away at the edge.

So the goal became the manufacture of a ROUND coin that had some edge defining devise so that "clipping" could be visually detected.

As technology progressed it was used to improve coining methods to achieve the goal of a tamper proof coin. There were Roller Presses - Rocker presses and Screw Presses all used over the next 3 centuries to speed things up and edge devices of various sorts were added.

But the coin in the picture was made on a press that has a retaining collar - a third die that creates an EDGE. It also produces a completely ROUND coin. In this case the edge is plain (except for the post strike punch that was added). The coin blank (planchet) was struck while it was surrounded on all three sides by metal dies. The pressure of the strike completely filled the void between the three dies (the coining chamber) with metal. Once struck the collar die was Pulled down and the completed coin was ejected.

But since you indicate the coin is from Henry IV who was King of France from 1589 to 1610 - it should have been struck in an open sided press of some sort.

The item may be silver (argent means silver) so a Specific Gravity test is in order.

Since I can not see either face of the item I can not tell if it is a medal a restrike or a souvenir but I suspect it is a simple souvenier.
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1956pack's Avatar
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2011  5:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1956pack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just posted lots of info and pic's on this medal and it works fine but 1/2 hr later its gone ? why?
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1956pack's Avatar
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2011  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1956pack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
see if this works my photo bucket site
http://s580.photobucket.com/albums/ss244/1956pack/
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bobby131313's Avatar
United States
24150 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2011  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
why?


Because you kept posting them all in new topics instead of replying to this one. Please keep everything here.
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1956pack's Avatar
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2011  6:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1956pack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok got it
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1956pack's Avatar
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2011  03:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1956pack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Any one?
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2011  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rarity of a medal is not an indicator of actual value. Many medals were manufactured in small groups.

There is an edge cut or rim ding near the silver marking so it is NOT a pristine copy either.

Most US dealers would buy it as bullion.
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2011  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Does the reverse of that medal show coining tools of that time? Do I see a hammer and anvil die?
If so, that's a nice visual to the excellent explanation.
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2011  4:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Absolutely - most of the elements of a medieval coining room are present.
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1956pack's Avatar
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2011  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1956pack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Similar 1660 French: medal bearing the likeness of Henri IV silver gilt called "The Gallic Hercules" - Diameter 68 mm - Reverse: Hercules - VINCE · ROBVR · ORBIS - Mazerolles 628 - Cabinet of Medals, Royal Series No. 284

Henri-IV-Argent-Real-Or-Fake

*** Edited by Staff - Fixed image ***
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1956pack's Avatar
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2011  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1956pack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's some good info on punch marks
http://jetoncollector.com/additiona...-jetons.html
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