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Mint Begins Trial Strikes In Composition Tests

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 Posted 01/23/2012  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
I promise you that if the mint announced they were halting the cent and nickel, I would give it MAYBE six months before the available coins would dry up to the point there wouldn't be enough in circulation to be useful.
Irrelevant. They are already useless and we no longer need them. Just look at how many have accumulated in change jars or on the ground.

Quote:
That's exactly the point. There are so many pre-2009 coins in circulation that newer dates are still sitting in vaults.


What we are seeing is these change jar hoards being returned to circulation. The cent and five cent coins are only valuable in quantity. On the small scale, they are not. If they were, these large dumps of coins would not have gotten so large to begin with. They got large when the economy was good and the value of regularly using small denominations was less than the time it takes to use them. Even in a bad economy, the time and effort to use them for exact change is seen as wasteful.
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 Posted 01/23/2012  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add allranger to your friends list
As much as jbuck jumps on these topics I can't help but to try and thing of the other side of the *ahem* coin.

It got me wondering how many times a penny much change hands before the penny is taken in taxes. Think about it, everytime money changes hands somebody payes taxes on it, and usually it is somebodies and many taxes.

So say I go out with my gold pan and mine an ounce of gold. So that is basically "new" money right? It is not really dependant on the existing economy, it's something I brought from outside and injected into the economy. So I take it and sell it to a refiner. I'm probably taxed on it, the refiner is, etc. The refiner sells it to a jeweller, the jeweller sells it to a jewellry store, some guy buys the gold band for his future wife and so one. If you take the taxes off that amount that the original gold ounce was, at what point is the amound $0? If no the guy buying the ring some where around there maybe? Is it after money changes hands ten times? I am not sure. I tried looking for some information on this but couldn't find much.

So I guess my question is how many times does a penny need to circulate between hands until the penny is collected in taxes? I'm sure many pennies circulated many times that number. If not in reality at least digitally. If something costs me 5 cents to make but I make back $3 worth of taxes in the first year it is in circulation do I really care it is worth 1 cent and took me 5 cents to make? Something about straining gnats maybe?

Just a question that I can not find a lot of data for.

"Irrelevant. They are already useless and we no longer need them. Just look at how many have accumulated in change jars or on the ground."

Those are basically intrest free loans there the way I see it.

Any way.
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United States
134 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2012  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markj11 to your friends list
It would be hard to pay a 7% sales tax without the penny. The whole marketing "$xx.99" would be gone. I guess it's just a little more difficult to remove the 1c.
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 Posted 01/23/2012  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
Sales tax is already rounded to the nearest cent.

Rounding to the neared five or ten cents is elementary.
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134 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2012  09:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markj11 to your friends list
Is there a thread were you have discussed this before? I just don't think it's as simple as rounding and my above post was made in jest. I agree that the penny needs to go away but I don't think it would be that easy to remove something that has been around for over 200 years.
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 Posted 01/24/2012  10:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
Yes. I have mentioned it... and it has been discussed... a LOT...

https://goccf.com/t/107445
https://goccf.com/t/105399
https://goccf.com/t/93819
https://goccf.com/t/76980
https://goccf.com/t/72480
https://goccf.com/t/73938
http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...PIC_ID=68648
https://goccf.com/t/34971

Total        7% Sales Tax   Rounded Tax
 $21.99          $1.53930         $1.54
 $33.99          $2.37930         $2.38 
 $67.99          $4.75930         $4.76
$113.48          $7.94360         $7.94
$499.99         $34.99930        $35.00
$245.88         $17.21160        $17.21


We eliminated the half-cent rather easily, granted it did not have the tenure of the cent. Other countries have managed to do away with lower denominations. I think that we should be able to do the same thing.

Even if the cent is gone as a coin, it will remain as a unit. Electronic transactions will still be to the cent. People paying cash will likely have everything rounded down for simplicity, since the vender will be saving on the electronic transaction fee. As I have mentioned in other threads, several places around here already do this.
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 Posted 01/24/2012  10:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list
Don't forget that certain things are actually priced in fractional cents, e.g. gas will be something like 3.199 (don't forget that tiny 9/10 fraction on the sign), yet we have no trouble rounding to the nearest cent. It would work just the same if we rounded to the nearest nickel or nearest quarter. My Dad remembers a kooky independent gas station that would always price is gas the same price as the station across the street, minus 1/10th of a cent, so they would be 3.198 (I guess back then it would have been something like 0.798).

For Star Trek fans, you'll be happy to know that rounding to the nearest nickel would be quite natural for Ferengi; in addition to their natural aptitude for money and figures, their number system is base 20.
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United States
134 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2012  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markj11 to your friends list
Thanks jbuck, I didn't want to ask the same questions that have already been answered.
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United States
2 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2012  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Roundeler to your friends list
IMHO, It really is time to stop cent production and consider a further date for the nickel.
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 Posted 01/24/2012  12:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
Thanks jbuck, I didn't want to ask the same questions that have already been answered.
No problem.
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594 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2012  01:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KenRingold to your friends list
We could just do away with currency all together and just go debit/credit.
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9104 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2012  02:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list
Amazing how people who worry about getting cheated out of 2¢ on a $40.18 purchase think nothing of paying $15 for a pizza they could make at home for five bucks.
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19949 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2012  08:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
I agree 100% jbuck!
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United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2012  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list

Quote:
If they are stupid ignorant enough to implement a material change (instead of discontinuing circulation mintage), then a design change is in order

I would think you would want the change to be as little noticed as possible in which case a design change is the LAST thing you would want to do.
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 Posted 01/26/2012  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
I would think you would want the change to be as little noticed as possible in which case a design change is the LAST thing you would want to do.
I was implying that one stupid ignorant decision deserves another.

However, if I am being honest, my reasoning for a design change is completely selfish. I do not want to think when sorting the old versions from the new. I do not want to have to rely on scales, Popsicle sticks, or "pings" to make the determination.
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