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A Musing On " Rare Coins"

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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2013  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list
I do not use the word "rare" to describe a coin unless it is at least an R-5 on the Sheldon rarity scale. That is the level where the scale first uses the word rare. An R-5 coin has 31 - 75 pieces known. I would think that most collectors would agree that would be a "rare" coin.

I agree though, the word "rare" is way over used. Go to your typical coin show and there are 100 dealers all selling the same "rare" coins.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3453 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2013  1:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list
Pillar of the Community
United States
1721 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2013  2:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mds308 to your friends list
And let's not forget about my favorite word. Unique. It can't be unique unless it's the only one or one of a kind. Unique and scarce/rare are not interchangeable.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2013  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list
Any collector of romans can tell you that a rare roman coin is incredibly common...
Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2013  5:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
Supurlatives sell coins it seems, but unique when there is more than a single one? Rare? Ultra Rare? Super Rare? I suppose it's all relative. The ASE has the 1995-W often called rare, I suppose it is when compared to the other mintages, but with 30,000+ of them, all in just about perfect condition I sure don't call that coin rare in my eyes. Rare, is 1894-S Barber dime, 1893-S Morgan, heck even most of my Two Cent Pieces aren't that rare really, but most people on the street that saw one would probably think even a worn one is pretty valuable today. I had one at work the other day and showed it to a client, he was amazed more that I only paid $10.00 for it than it was from 1865!

BenByfield - LOL Very true!
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2013  8:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
"Scarce" is a under used term when it comes to sellimg.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2013  10:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list
Aye, there is a difference between "rare" and "scarce" in this case and it's a very important one.

Something can be rare, but not scarce. A good example is a 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent. It is rather rare, compared to other pennies, but you can find dozens for sale on ebay at any given time.

Something like a Henning Nickel, however, is both rare (in that there aren't many of them) and scarce (as you can't easily find one at your average coin show or on the Internet).
CCF Sponsor
Canada
149 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2013  4:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LondonCoin to your friends list
I agree don't use the word rare unless the coin is an R5. If you see a couple of them for sale on ebay at the same time, then don't use the word. In my eyes rare means you come across one for sale every few years, or longer.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2013  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list

Quote:
. Rare, is 1894-S Barber dime, 1893-S Morgan,

The 1894-S dime yes, with only 9 pieces known it is an R-7 Extremely Rare, but the 1893-S dollar is not rare at all only expensive. It is probably only an R-1 with over 1000 pieces known and it is always available for a price. Go to a mid size or larger show and you will typically find one or more on the floor. At a larger show you may find a dozen or more. At an ANA or FUN show it would not surprise me if you could find enough of them on the floor to knock it out of the R-5 Rare category AT the show.
Valued Member
United States
318 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2013  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverEye to your friends list
It would be possible for a rare item to be easily and frequently available if the duration of possession was very brief. A "hot-potato" scenario where no one held onto the piece for long before relisting it for sale.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2013  2:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list
True but the coin itself would still be "Rare". A dozen rapid re-appearances of the same coin is still just the one coin It doesn't make it any less rare.
Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2013  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
Okay then, how about this analogy? Anything advertised on Coin Shopping Network is NOT rare. Nor any coin or series sold by a multi-level marketing company.

Don't believe the hype! I 'm confident most CCF members know better, but how many potential new collectors do we loose because they sink their kids college money into TPG MS70 ASE's and such, with the hopes of making off with huge profits in a few years. Most of that stuff will never recover the mark-up unless metals really take off (possible).

My grandmother had amazing coins from her time at Sears Roebuck Manager of a large stores cashiers. She kept buckets of Indian cents, Liberty nickels, some gold coins, seated stuff, etc. basically anything old and different, this was in the late 1940's she exchanged for current money.

She got into buying TV show coins before I started collecting. When I did start collecting seriously, my Mom told me all about her Mom's collection. She apparently had a lot of old coins and said I could probably look through them next time we went to see Grandmother. I was excited for a whole year, and often wondered what I see. When we finally visited her, around Christmas, she told me she had given almost all her old worn coins away to another kid so my cousins near by could trade him for baseball cards (grrrr), but she told me she had started a new collection of Kennedy halves, and other stuff with the guys on TV. She was convinced that was the next big thing because of these idiots on TV coin shows, she once had old coins and gold, now she had colored quarters, modern junk over all over graded and modern, common, foreign proof and specimen sets.

My mom told me she remembered at least 4 or 5 full complete sets of Whitman blue folders of Indians and Buffalos and several large paint buckets full of Indians, Buffalo and Liberty nickels, several small (probably 25-50 coin) bags of Morgan and Seated dollars, quite a few gold coins and other odd looking stuff (probably commemortive halves and 3 cent, Half Dimes and a few large cents from her descriptions. An amazing haul that had been culled from circulation at a large urban retail store for face and kept for 30 years in a closet. I always wondered just what she really had. The one that got away, and may not have, if not for the sales pitch, of not rare, rare coins on TV.

"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2013  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list
Westcoin, that story is VERY painful, and very sad.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2885 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2013  3:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list
In the world of Roman provincial coins nearly every one could be considered rare (certainly there are a lot where there are only less than 100 known) - some unique, but that does not make them astronomicially valuable.
Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2013  04:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
Thanks for your condolences condor!

It was a painful story to remember, I hadn't thought of it in a long time. I always wondered if the kid, (about my age) at the time, ever kept those coins and stayed in the hobby at least? He had a small fortune from what I heard she gave him over time.

My Grandma was kind of loosing it towards the end of her life and doing a lot of dumb or irrational things, like giving away her wedding ring to a housekeeper, this was all before my Mom moved back to be closer to her and watch out for her well being. Because of that whole fiasco, I think, is why my own Mom has encouraged me in rare coins, both as a hobby and when I tried to make a living at it. She remembered how much her Mother loved saving the old designs, my mom and her sister and brother filling the holes in the folders of Indian, Lincoln head cents, Buffalo nickels and others, so when she saw that I was catching the collecting bug she definitely encouraged me, Thanks Mom!
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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