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 Replies: 40 / Views: 4,568 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
Looking at this again. I'm in the fence between AU/UNC Details. Still can't get a good feel for the surfaces based on the pics so I'm tapping out.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18684 Posts |
sure wish the obverse photo was a little better as it can mean the difference between AU and UNC. based on the photos provided the obverse looks like it was cleaned. I cant see any circulation markers on the reverse. I would say UNC details
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New Member
 United States
28 Posts |
Dear All, thank you so much for your input. I know it's tough to grade just by pictures (which I had to cut down due to the 300kb size restrictions). I really appreciate your help on the grading, so it's time to reveal the true NGC grade - They graded it AU Details, cleaned. To me that is totally nonsense, as there are exact zero circulation markers anywhere on the coin. If I take my ANA grading Standards book, this is definitely Uncirculated. As I said I'm relatively new to the grading stuff, but comparing my coin to other graded coins, this should be Unc (Details) Then cleaning is very light on the Obv, and I've seen worse cleaned coins in MS63 holders. I guess it's because the graders know this is a 5 figure coin in its straight grade so they tend more to a Details grading than on a common date. Could this be the case? (wouldn't make sense) Does anybody have an idea on how to dispute this specific grading at NGC? I own a AU58 1884s by NGC which looks way worse by comparison (circulation signs, as well as scratches and nicks) - Especially the hairlines and feathers are very well defined on the discussed coin IMO. but of course I could be wrong... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
Circled is the area in question for me, but can't judge well from this pic. After pulling it up in my computer, it's certainly shows enough light scratches and tics to reasonably assume it saw some light circulation. The big problem, to me, between AU and UNC details, especially in a case like this where it very obviously looks polished, is you don't have much original surfaces on the coin. If you've polished a coin, even lightly it's no longer Uncirculated. Take a MS66 and polish it and it should be automatic AU Details. IMO. Edit: I think they're call was fair, but you can always dispute it with them. This would involve sending it back and paying them to reevaluate. Just need to contact CS. I personally wouldn't spend the time and money on that though.  Edited by Ty2020b
10/31/2020 4:17 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18684 Posts |
i was having a hard time between AU and UNC. I agree with Ty2020b the area noted appears to have been polished and as soon as I saw the photo thats the first thing that jumped out at me. whatever caused it, the surfaces do not appear to be original. I agree with NGC
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7624 Posts |
You can argue the merits of this coin with NGC and there is a 99.99% chance they will still render the same opinion regarding the coin. If you are willing to spend more money then send it to PCGS and get their opinion.
As I said earlier, lightly circulated 1884S dollars are not rare. On the other hand, true BU coins (MS60 and above) are tough to find. Just look at the Graysheet .... the price spread between AU and BU tells the story.
I have always heard that bags and bags of BU 84-S Morgan's were issued and were allowed to circulate for a few weeks. For some reason those lightly circulated coins were then recalled, bagged back up and sent to the Treasury in Washington. They were then "found" during the great silver rush of the 1960's and found their way back to the collecting community. I do not know if that story is true but it almost makes sense considering the quantity of slabbed AU coins vs slabbed BU coins available on the market.
It is an interesting coin and has been for over 60 years!
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New Member
United States
28 Posts |
Thx for your opinion. I got more questions:
1. Do you think it makes sense to send the coin to PCGS? Are they any different in their grading?
2. If it's polished, why does the label state cleaned? I saw NGC labels that said 'polished', if that is the case why don't they call it on my coin?
Thx again, all your help keeps getting better at the specifics of how they grade coins!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7624 Posts |
The reason to give PCGS a shot at it is to get another set of eyes on it. They have not seen this coin, NGC has already seen it. Why waste money with a company that has already given you their opinion?
If PCGS renders an opinion exact, or close, to what NGC graded it then you KNOW what you have. Good luck!
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Valued Member
United States
338 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18684 Posts |
PCGS is going to be more critical than NGC. I cant see them coming up with any other grade
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New Member
United States
28 Posts |
Okay so if nobody suggests to send it to PCGS then I'll probably stick to the NGC grade although I got mixed opinions altogether on the coin being Unc or AU.
I definitely learned a lot already so Thx to the community, I'll definitely try to contribute as much as I can.
One last thing: Does anyone suggest sending coins to ANACS (not this particular one, more in general)?
I think they at least say 'AU58 details' for example instead of just saying AU details, do they!?
As with coins that jump in price between let's say AU50 and Au58, would this be a good idea overall?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7624 Posts |
I say send it to PCGS and get their opinion. The more opinions you have the better of a consensus you can develop. You also get a feel for grading and develop your own skills.
As far as ANACS goes I think they will call it AU details, too.
The 84-S dollars are strange birds in the AU to Unc grades in our world of coins. Many of them have have been cleaned and dipped to death. The grading companies are very careful when grading them and will not cut you some slack with borderline coins. It's been that way a long time.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
I think any of the 3 big TPG's will call this a one look Details coin. NGC- as stated, they've already seen it and will be more likely to get the same results. PCGS- agreed, they will probably be harsher on it, but you would have a slightly higher resale value for the simple fact it's in a PCGS slab. ANACS- recently, I've noticed they are equally tough on Morgans. I don't see them straight grading but it is nice that they will still assign the numerical grade before the Details designation. Resale is slightly less than the other two TPGs. If it comes back as AU-58 Details with ANACS, or Details in a PCGS, resale value is a wash. Personally, I wouldn't resub to NGC. I would try ANACS first out of curiosity on what they call it, and the cost to do so in minimal. Then PCGS, but I think we're all pretty confident in what PCGS would call this, based on the pics provided. My Two Cents. Edited by Ty2020b
11/01/2020 2:43 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1694 Posts |
i was told by the VAM guys on VAM world if you really want to know what your Morgan grade is send to ANACS |
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New Member
United States
28 Posts |
OKay so I will probably send it to ANACS and see what they say.
I'll keep you guys updated!
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Posted 10/31/2020 10:14 am
