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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
that is the one reason I would never send a GSA to PCGS for certification. In every other instance PCGS coins sell for more than a NGC graded coin will except for the GSA coins. When I see a PCGS GSA Morgan I just think of it as a regular morgan of that date and mint mark and dont think of the history behind the GSA, but when I look at NGC GSA Morgans I automatically think about the history of the coins. I know it makes no difference the coins are still a GSA its just one is still in its original holder/box and most of the time has the COA with it and the other is just in the Third Party holder with the letters GSA stamped on the label but still I can help but be bias when looking at the two
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4589 Posts |
I saw quite a few GSA CC- Morgans and a GSA- Peace at the coin show this weekend, has anyone else heard of this . by the way I do know that some GSA are not CC. A few of the Ones I saw were prooflike w/ a little frosting on the devices - but with lots of marks on the white that was on the cheek..
Edited by scoutjim99 08/08/2006 03:37 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
that is true, not all GSA are CC morgans. I have never seen a peace GSA and to tell you the truth never heard of one but I am in no way saying they dont exist. The GSA Dollars were found in a vault where they had been sitting for many many years and most of them were uncirculated (even some I have seen marked as circulated look uncirculated to me). Here is some information about the Carson City Mint and the GSA Dollars. The Treasury Department permitted the Carson City Mint to reopen in June 1896, limiting its activities to refining precious metal bullion. This reduction in status was formally conferred upon the facility by Congress in 1899, whereupon its coining machinery was removed and sent elsewhere. Some 22 tons of unused "CC" silver dollars (approximately 750,000 of them) were emptied from the (former) mint's vault and shipped back east. Most of them remained in storage until the 1970s, when the General Services Administration (GSA) packaged each dollar individually and offered them for sale to the public.From its opening in 1870 to the shutdown of coining operations in 1893, the Carson City Mint yielded nearly $50 million of coins in face value.The Carson City facility continued to refine gold and silver ore rather uneventfully for many years. While the old "CC" Mint toiled in relative obscurity, the United States as a nation stepped onto the world stage, rising to great heights militarily and economically, and contributed mightily in the preservation of democracy in the "War to End all Wars".In 1933, as the country was mired in the depths of the Great Depression, the facility was closed as a cost cutting measure. When the last employee turned out the lights and locked the doors, no one knew for sure the destiny awaiting the historic building.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I want to add, there is a very good write up about the GSA dollars in the "comprehensive catalog and Encyclopedia of Morgan and Peace dollars" by Leroy C. Van Allen & A. George Mallis that starts on page 397 and if you want to know alot of information about the GSA and have the book it is a very interesting read. here are the numbers the book gives and what numbers of what specific date was put in the GSA holder .............. Uncirculated.... Mixed CC.... Mixed Uncirculated.... Circulated........... Unusable1878-CC...47,567....................................................................13,426(culled) 1879-CC....3,633...............490 1880-CC..114,942.............16,587 1882-CC..122,709.............24,776 1883-CC..523,853.............222,116 1884-CC..788,630.............174,008 1885-CC..130,823.............17,462 1889-CC............................11890-CC....3,610...............339 1891-CC....5,177...............510 1892-CC............................11893-CC............................1Various P,O,S............................................27,980 Various.....................................................................................84,165.......................311 As a result of sorting operations, the GSA had five catagories of cilver dollars (1) Uncirculated CC, (2) Mixed CC (3) Mixed Uncirculated (of other mints) (4)Mixed Uncirculated and (5)Unusable (due to severe gouge or badly worn). The mixed CC category included Uncirculated CC dollars that were tarnished andscratched and were therefore to be sold at a reduced price.Also note that thismixed CC category also included one each of the Uncirculated 1889-CC, 1892-CC, and the 1893-CC. These were put in this category since there was not enough to include as seperate bid categories of the uncirculated CC. Since the Uncirculated 1878-CC were sold at the same price ($15), the culled (tarnished/scratched)1878-CC had to be sold at a lower price. All 13,426 culled 1878-CC were put in the mixed circulated category abd sold for $3 each.[:0] The rejects/errors consisted of 2 to 5 percent of the total coins of each year. The scratched/tarnished consisted of 10 to 30 percent of the total coins with 1878,1882,1883, and 1884 particularly high. The initial sorting culled out 72,000 1882-CC, 78,000 1883-CC, and 77,000 1884-CC as scratched/tarnished. Later, additional coins were added to this category for these three years. The Bank Holding Company Act Amendments which were signed by president Nixon on December 31,1970, authorizing the sale of the dollars by the GSA did not permit error or variety coins to be sold seperately from the normal coins. Thus, they were mixed in at random with the two categories of coins sold; those that met the grading standards and those that fell below the grading standards to be sold at a reduced cost.
Edited by Bryan1315 08/08/2006 1:47 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
986 Posts |
so, would my best bet in getting a GSA morgan be an 1883-cc? (not sure if I'm reading your chart right, bryan)
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
ok here is the totals of all for each year which consists of each catagory above 1878-CC=60,993 1879-CC=4,123 1880-CC=131,529 1881-CC=147,485 1882-CC=605,029 1883-CC=755,518 1884-CC=962,638 1885-CC=148,285 1889-CC=1 1890-CC=3,949 1891-CC=5,687 1892-CC=1 1893-CC=1 Various P,O,S=27,980 Various=84,476
So by that chart the 1884 is the most common with 962,638 with 1883 being the second with 755,518 and 1882 being in third most common at 605,029
Edited by Bryan1315 08/08/2006 1:55 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
Early in 1973 it was noted that some of the 1880-CC dollars in the GSA displays were of the strong overdates. At the requestof members of the numismatic hobby, the GSA further segregated the 1880-CC strong overdates into seperate boxes in the spring of 1973. These were examined by numismatists (Van Allen and Mallis) for varieties early in may 1973. Sampling of thevarious dates of Carson City dollars revealed numerous minor varieties for each date such as doubled dates and mint marks. Of special importance were the strongoverdates of the 1880-CC; VAM-4 (80/79), VAM-5 (8/7 High),and the VAM-6 (8/7 Low). From the sampling it was estimated that 15,000 VAM-4, 13,000 VAM-5 and 10,000 VAM-6 were in uncirculated category, while 1,600 VAM-4 1,900 VAM-5 and 1,000 VAM-6 were in the mixed category. Totals of the overdates sold by the GSA were about 16,000 VAM-4, 15,000 VAM-5, and 11,000 VAM-6. There were 27,980 mined non-CC Uncirculated coins. Anywhere from one to five bags existed for 1879-S, 1880-S, 1881-S, 1882-S, 1883-P, 1883-O, 1884-O, 1885-P, 1885-O, and 1887-O. The remaining were common date 1922 and 1923-P Peace dollars.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
sorry I am ranting on about this but I am just giving highlights to the ones that do not have the book to read on their own
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Pillar of the Community
United States
986 Posts |
that's great info, bryan. which book are you using?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
comprehensive catalog and Encyclopedia of Morgan and Peace dollars" by Leroy C. Van Allen & A. George Mallis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4589 Posts |
great info . thanks Bryan
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
thats what I call a good investment, pay $15.00 in 1974 or 1980 and sell them today for $200+. Thats about like finding a high leaf/low leaf quarter or a speared bison nickel in a roll of coins you got from the bank
Edited by Bryan1315 08/08/2006 4:53 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
891 Posts |
Good read Bryan. Wasn't aware of those facts. Thanks
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
Bryan, very good recapitulation of the GSA Morgans (and Peace dollars - I also wasn't aware of GSA Peace $$, but then, I've never paid too much attention to 20th century silver dollars). The numbers certainly explain the relatively low values of 1882, 83, and 84 Carson City GSA Morgans, at least in MS-64 and below. At MS-65, the values start to creep up at bit and at MS-66 and above, there's a sharp jump in value. I suspect the ebay sales prices of GSA NGC MS-64 and below 82, 83, and 84-CCs will continue to be low for a number of years with maybe only a slight climb until enough have been cracked out of their original GSA/NGC-graded holders to create a shortage. Then, after someone has written an article in Coin World or Numismatist about the shortage, the value will leap! And PCGS and ANACS GSA Morgans without the GSA holders will be left behind in the dust. In other words, for the moment, GSA-holdered Morgans are "sleepers". It would behoove the wise investor to stock up on GSA CC Morgans. Mark these words... Fred
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I agree 100% even the most common dates like the 82,83,84 will be good investments in the future. They may take awhile but they are definately affordable now (usually under 200 bucks) and have great potential
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