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 Replies: 5 / Views: 1,306 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3640 Posts |
Hello I just wanted to state a few things to get some other input. Not intending here to judge anyone etc. I realize that coin grading standards are not what they used to be. Why, not sure. I seem to see it more so with copper coins. Example: If you walk into a bank and buy a roll of brand new uncirculated quarters fresh from the fed. via the mint then you have uncirculated coins. Period. If that roll is cracked open by the teller and dumped into the drawer then one coin is given out to one person in change and then that one person in turn carries it around in there pocket for a day or two then rerolls it with others and then cashes it in at the bank then that coin is now circlated. Period. So, how can a Wheat cent that is 70 yrs. old or so that is found today in a bank roll by a cherry picker even be considered as a unc. mint state coin ? I think The terms mint state and uncirculated should be adjusted. We assume naturally that the lower end of an unc. coin is just that, unc. which in turn equals MS 60-62. then it goes up from there. It is possible (very rare) to find a coin that is MS-69 condition but that is actually circulated. So how can it be MS period if it was actually circulated ? Not sure if anyones gets my drift here but it seems if you have an older dated coin there is more leniency to call it MS when in reality it has been circulated. Then on newer coins they seem to put them under an electron microscope to get a MS69 Maybe I am wrong here in stating that Unc. is not the same as MS. Either way I guess this makes no difference as what is stated on the slab is what it is now. Period. I just think the whole grading system is flawed. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
812 Posts |
It is probably more accurate to use the term Mint State. If a coin is just as it was when first minted, with no detectable wear, it is Mint State. If it "circulated" for a while, but was treated so gently that absolutely no wear occurred, then it is Mint State.
The term Uncirculated could be used to describe the history of the coin (and if you take the word literally, then it should), but it is instead used interchangeably with the term Mint State. Maybe it would be useful to assign different meanings to these terms, but I think it's too late now.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Hi Indian
under the senario which you have detailed , I agree with you , but there are many other senarios which can account for the coin remaining Unc .
Here is just one which I have used before and still do on occasion .
Im at the store , the checker is out of a particular coin in the drawer and needs one or two to make my change , she/He busts open a fresh roll from the bank and I see its a new roll and all the coins are BU and she /He dumps them into the bin , she/He then hands me the coin or two to make my change , depending on what it is ,I might ask for more of them , just take what is given to me , or even ask for another roll if one is available .for the purposes of this post lets say I just take what is given to me , they are bright Unc coins from a fresh vender roll, I put them in my pocket and walk to my vehicle , open my wallet and pull out the plastic coin flips I keep in it and place the coins in the flip, put them back in my wallet and I'm off to work, there have been times when I have forgotten about the coins for a week and carried them in my wallet for the whole time .
the coins remain Unc even after being there for a week .
so sometimes when I see the coins on here in photo's and I can see no decernable evidence of wear I still have to call them Unc and if possible apply a numerical grade .
because while its possible they do have some sign of wear when viewed in hand I can't see it in the photo.
Thee is no way to know all of the details of the handling of the coin prior to the poster displaying it here and there is no way for the poster to know for sure unless it is a similar senario to what I posted what has occured to the coin before it coming into their possession .
so while I agree that a senario such as yours if it can be traced will not produce an Unc coin knowing that exact senario happened without a doubt is pretty tough .
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3640 Posts |
Yes, naturally I can see that point. Your coins would indeed be unc. And I alo realize without coin in hand it is tough to tell if so or not. But do you aqgree or not, that older coins that are found in circulation seem to get an MS when indeed they are circs. It won't happen, but I think the term "Mint State" should be just that. The 60 through 70 designations are fine also. but AU should be used for what a lot of so called Unc.'s that are now being called MS. Example again: A 1909 Wheat cent found in a bank roll gets an MS grade. The odds are probably better of one winning the lottery than this coin actually being Unc. But find a one year old coin and it seems once again you have to go through hoops to get an Unc. grade. I just feel that regardless of the type or age of a coin the grading criteria should be the same. I am not trying to start rioting in the streets or anything :) but ? Just some things to ponder. Maybe a new term to use ?: CS Circulated State 60-69 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Of course I agree that the odds of a 1909 cent found in circulation or even in a bag of wheaties being mint state would be a very very rare occurance. I don't think a new designation is the answer knowledge is where its at . I also don't think that there will be any rioting in the streets !  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5641 Posts |
I have also been aware of this "standard" of calling a coin , based on the sight and year,obviously not a uncirculated coin an unc.I also feel that many people( ebay sellers,coin dealers, not all)use this term loosely and people not knowing better will believe the terms used for truth.It would seem there should be some form of policing, not, it won't be ebay, it won't be the graders, who then?The example used, 1909 cent is in many ways a good example, for one this is not an everyday find and is obvious that buyer beware.I have seen at shows the coins on display are , in my opinion, not as such and state so to the vendor and am told, what do you know or take a good look. The system for grading coins from 1-70 is very open to the multiple use of definitions for a coin, bu, unc, ms,au, etc. I think at this point in time with all the terms and labels put on grading coins, it was stated above by METALMAN, THE BEST, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.Now I am going to the bank to ask for a bag of unc 1909 cents>>>  |
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Posted 11/29/2008 6:24 pm
