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 Replies: 97 / Views: 15,922 |
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Valued Member
Canada
271 Posts |
Quote:A 2012 Mercury dime never officially was made/distributed by the US mint, therefore a copy of a real one could never be made. Someone could produce their own replica Mercury dime and put a 2012 date it. So if we take semantics to this level, it would be a replica of the Mercury design, but not a replica of an actual 2012 Mercury dime since an actual 2012 was never made Exactly. Also, if it's illegal, why hasn't he been shut down? You can't tell me the government doesn't care. The government cared that a few guys were melting down old pennies in their backyards. Daniel Carr is probably operating under some tiny loophole. Edited by OddCoins
12/29/2012 10:06 am
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Locked
822 Posts |
Guess you didn't bother to read Sap's post... Quote:
Just because the government knows about Carr and hasn't shut him down does not make it OK or legal. They can decide to come down on him at any time. Nothaus made and passed his Liberty dollars for almost 10 years before the government started to harass him and a couple more before they shut him down. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
IMO.. the difference between Van Nothaus and Carr is simple. Nothaus encouraged the use of his "coins" in place of Federal coinage. Carr simply makes collector fantasy pieces and has never suggested his "coins" could or should be used in place of U.S. coins...
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Forum Dad
 United States
24174 Posts |
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IMO.. the difference between Van Nothaus and Carr is simple. I don't think Sap was really trying to compare the two. I believe his intent was just to point out that just because Carr hasn't been shut down, doesn't mean he is safe by any means. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
OK. I guess I like to see both of them as part of the strange tapistry of Numismatology. Regardless of legality, I love whatching coin history as it is written..
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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IMO.. the difference between Van Nothaus and Carr is simple. Nothaus encouraged the use of his "coins" in place of Federal coinage. Yet they still waited for over 10 years before they went after Nothaus. If they are going to wait that long for his offense, I really can't be see them being in any great hurry to shut down Carr. In either case it still doesn't matter, the statement is still true. Just because they haven't closed you down doesn't make what you are doing legal. If a cop sees you doing 40 in a 25 zone and doesn't go after you, that doesn't make it OK to drive 40 in 25 MPH zones. |
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Valued Member
Canada
271 Posts |
Quote:
Guess you didn't bother to read Sap's post... I did read Sap's post, and every other post on this thread. If you took the time to read MY post, you would notice that I never 'it is legal' or 'it is illegal.' I said the government doesn't care which one it is, which they don't. That is a fact. If they cared, he would not be making these coins anymore. |
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Locked
822 Posts |
Quote:
I did read Sap's post, and every other post on this thread. I guess I asked the wrong question. I should have asked Did you comprehend Sap's post? because you obviously didn't. No action was taken on the Liberty Dollars for a dozen years, doesn't mean they didn't care. Obviously, they did. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1227 Posts |
Scubu, OddCoins, may I propose a third solution and say they are looking into it? If NORFED was allowed to run for HOW many years, and they were just quietly picking up evidence, who is to say--unless one of you works for the Mint--that they're not doing the same to Carr, waiting for him to step over some invisible line?
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Valued Member
Canada
271 Posts |
I just re-read Sap's post. I completely understand what he is saying and I understand what you are trying to say. Daniel Carr has been making these 'coins' since 2008. He has designed coins for the government and bought a surplus die press from them. He makes no attempt to keep what he does secret. There is ZERO possibility that the government hasn't found out what he's doing. It's not important because he doesn't pretend they're legal tender, and they're NOT COPIES OF ANY REAL COINS because they are CHANGED! Similar, yes. Counterfeit, no. There is no intent to deceive. If any idiots think that a 2012 Mercury dime, or one of his Ameros is a real coin, then they are the ones that should be locked away. I'm not looking for an argument, I'm stating my opinion. If your opinion is that he is a counterfeiter, that's fine. Has anyone bought anything from him and compared it to the real deal? |
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Locked
822 Posts |
Quote:
and they're NOT COPIES OF ANY REAL COINS because they are CHANGED! Let me repeat one of my previous posts... Quote:Mr. Carr buys an old currency press and starts cranking out some series 2005 $20 FRNs and starts selling them on ebay. No different, they never existed. Not copies of any real bills. You OK with it? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5862 Posts |
And let me repeat one of my previous posts (that never seems to get addressed): Quote:
What if I made an exact duplicate of an existing coin and added my own "B" mint mark to it? Could I argue that it's not a copy since there aren't any "real" coins that have a "B" mint mark?
What if I made an exact duplicate of an existing coin and purposely misspelled "LIBERTY" as "LIBRETY"?
What if I made an exact duplicate of an existing coin but simply did a poor job replicating the image of liberty (too many spikes in the headdress, wrong shape of the eyes, etc.)?
Where's the line between "bad counterfeit" and "fantasy coin" when you're talking about only minor changes to a real coin design? |
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Moderator
United States
189340 Posts |
Quote:
If a cop sees you doing 40 in a 25 zone and doesn't go after you, that doesn't make it OK to drive 40 in 25 MPH zones.  Do not confuse the apparent condoning and lack of condemnation with an official approval. |
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Valued Member
Canada
271 Posts |
Quote:
What if I made an exact duplicate of an existing coin and added my own "B" mint mark to it? Could I argue that it's not a copy since there aren't any "real" coins that have a "B" mint mark? To me, that would be walking on a thin line. That's why Daniel Carr makes other alterations to the coins. With this, I'm going to butt out of this thread. I never said it was legal, and I never said I or the government condone what he does. I do admire his work, and he is very good at it. If he was shut down and thrown in jail, I would still admire his work. The government does not care. Only the government can say whether it's legal or not, and that's that. Until either the feds or Daniel Carr explains why he gets away with it, no one will know. -Oddcoins |
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Moderator
United States
189340 Posts |
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Only the government can say whether it's legal or not, and that's that. No, it is the Law which makes the determination, and the law is quite clear... Quote:
Whoever, within the United States, makes or brings therein from any foreign country, or possesses with intent to sell, give away, or in any other manner uses the same, except under authority of the Secretary of the Treasury or other proper officer of the United States, any token, disk, or device in the likeness or similitude as to design, color, or the inscription thereon of any of the coins of the United States or of any foreign country issued as money, either under the authority of the United States or under the authority of any foreign government shall be fined under this title. It is up to the government to enforce the law, which at the moment it has chose not to do. |
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Posted 12/29/2012 10:25 am
