Modern Proof Maria Theresa Thaler?

2003/2004 edge error trial photo

A recent error coin that is not listed in Hafner. The photo is not the greatest I will see if I can take a better one tonight. the error came about because someone installed one of the edge dies upside down. With this coin "Clementia" is upside down in comparison with "Justitia et" look hard at the photo of the edge and you will see what I mean. Part of the problem with photographing this coins edge is the poor execution of the edge.

2nd New picture Still not brilliant but I placed the picture of the reverse inside the circular photo of the edge(taken using a flashlight reflector):



the edge should read "Justitia et Clementia" but on the edge of this coin Clementia is upside down.....ie: in the photo the bottom of the letters of Clementia" (8 o'clock to 10 O'clock in the photo)are to the outside of the photo. on a non-error example the bottom of the letters would be towards the inside of the photo( Does this help?)

From that I guess you cant see the error. look at the orientation of Clementia in comparison to "iustitia". The bottom of the letter of Clementia should be to the inside not to the outside.

They are not expensive compared to other MTT errors so based on that I don't think they are hard to find I believe that one cost me €90.00. examples come up for sale once and a while here in floor auction. I will PM you if I see one. I took a better photo last night I replace that second trial photo with the new one( the position of the edging letters in the new Photo is adjusted to match the actual orientation of the edge to face). While I"m at it I will post pictures of two other errors I own. H51 (IMI) and H55 (ARGHID)


H51 (IMI instead of IMP):



H55 (ARGHID instead of Archid) note photo was taken using a ring light...it really needs to photographed using axial lighting(I'm waiting for the arrival of a better light source):

The softporn-myth is traced back to a Victorian traveler Sir Samuel Baker (Nile tributaries of Abyssinia(1868) in his travels he noticed that the people he paid with MTT immediately inspected the coins and examined the bust( in both senses of the word).His book is infused with a sense of moral and civilized superiority and regarding the MTT he wrote at one point:

" The Austrian Dollar of Maria Theresa is the only large coin current in this country: the effigy of the Empress with a very low dress and a profusion of bust, is the charm that suits the Arab taste. So particular are these people that they reject the coin after careful examination, unless they can distinctly count seven dots {austrokiwi's note here: seven dots says something! At the time the Vienna mint produced coins with 8 dots so this is either a typo or it indicates that the MTT's from Italy ( last produced in the 1840; which had seven dots) may have still been very common.} that form the stars upon the coronet".

From that point on many English people had the impression that the Fat Lady, as they had nicknamed the MTT, held an erotic appeal. A few years later some British officers produced a book of their safari in the same region. From their style of writing they were a lot less prejudiced than Baker and actually communicated more with the local porters they, like Baker, were employing. Some of those porters taught the Brit Officers how to distinguish genuine from fake MTT... in particular they were told the pearls around the brooch were an important marker. I believe Baker didn't get that information. Now as I have slandered Baker a little I will moderate my comment a little. The locals used as porters, in the language of the day, were base uneducated people who couldn't be trusted so some of Bakers superiority and lack of communication was rooted in the knowledge these were not the most reliable or honorable people in the region.

The fact is some might have actually found some titillation with the coin but that would not be the norm and only the most warped of characters would see it that way. In Ethiopia ( with a Coptic Christian national religion) the usual error was to interpret the bust as being that of the Madonna. While in North Sudan and Egypt the MTT was fashionable with women because they had become aware of the number of Children Maria Theresa had had. As a result many women in that region wanted to wear MTT as a fertility talisman( Crowns and half crowns of Queen Victoria were also fashionable for the same reason).

Back to Baker...if he had actually traveled to the coastal regions he would have found that the MTT was not so popular and that sovereigns( and mainland European equivalents), US$ gold coins, Silver rupees and wide variety of European Silver coins were traded freely and often in higher numbers than the MTT.

The problem is some people still believe the Arabs love the MTT because of an erotic appeal. The reality is much more complex, and at times sinister. In the highlands of Ethiopia and the regions of north Africa where the slave trade was strong, slaves were bought and sold with/for MTT. Much of the slave trade in that region and time was dominated or strongly influenced by the Omani trading empire. The Omani's predominantly used the MTT (they only demonetized it in 1971)and spread it throughout their trading empire. Also in Yemen the MTT was the predominant form of exchange for coffee.




I had to sacrifice a Torch(flash light) I removed the concave reflector and photographed the coin sitting inside the reflector. This gives a picture of the coin surrounded by a mirror image of the edge. It was a pain as the edge is thin and only gets indirect lighting, while the face gets direct lighting. Increasing the light only over exposes the face.... so I took the photo with a ring light only. Then it was photo shop all the way. First I selected out every thing but the edge photo ( for the final shot posted) I then flipped that image horizontally so it was no longer a mirror image...then I had to rotate it 180 degrees to put the words back into the right positions with respect to the face. Once that was done I then reopened the original photo and cut out just the face which I then pasted into the edge Ring. I then flattened out the layers to make one final photo. Before I inserted the photo of the coin face I had to do some work on the edge. With all the manipulation the decorations and words were hard to see and actually appeared to be incuse. So I had to use the sponge tool to lighten the areas between each letter and decoration. You can still see the edge is still darker than the face despite both being photographed together. One trick to pass on: Use the largest reflector you can.....the concave surface actually magnifies the edge slightly making it relatively easier to see.

Archraz: 1963 the Missouri numismatic society purchased 400 MTT direct from the vienna mint. They counter-marked the coins to commemorate the 25 anniversary of the society. The issue was a failure in some respects only 200 coins were sold to collectors and the remainder went to a coin dealer who sold only a small number, during the Hunt brothers escapade the silver price went so high that the coin dealer sold the remaining stock as bullion and the coins were melted down( so surviving mintage is around 250 coins). So the Missouri counter-marked coin is a great marker. Obviously you can see where I am going: my example of that counter-mark is exactly( minus the counter-mark) like the one you have posted. Notably the two dots are missing on the counter-marked coin. In 1984 Walter Hafner produced 200 counter-marked MTT using Vienna mint coins. My example of that coin is slightly different to yours but is still missing the two dots. In 1996 the Union Numismatique D'Alsace produced another counter-marked MTT( also different to yours) using Vienna mint coins. That coin has the two dots. So the time frame for no dot Re-strikes is approximately 1960-1996 Your coin, closely matching the Missouri counter-marked coin, probably dates to the 1960s. {as an aside given what genuine counter-marks can tell us I am sure you can understand my hate of spurious counter-marks counter-marks on MTTs.}

Not so expert really I have 10 years worth of focus on the MTT and considerable investment in experience( read that as mistakes) I was stumped by Archaz's coin initially but I have a collection I can refer to so really my post was showing how I worked it out by comparing to coins in my collection. I missed out commenting on the heavy and light veil( I got carried away by the heart of the erotic myth that I missed it out. Tonight I will take a photo of a heavy veiled MTT and tell what I know about the change from heavy to light.

Just to share the MTT fans here for a recetly acquired H39 specimen.

The most striking features are the large signature (S.F.) and large bust. It was struck in Milan 1828-41, not too difficult to identify but quite difficult to find a good grade of it.

Specification of my coins: 40.0mm, 27.95 grams.

See pictures:

There should be 7 pearls on the diadem, but was worn out here.


An old type saltire


Edge iron meeting point is difficult to see as it was not presented by junction dots of the latter types.

wonghinghi & austrokiwi- So I'm a bit confused. I was under the impression that all Vienna-minted coins from 1960-the present had two dots on the central band of the inner-most shield. Is it the case that in fact all produced from 1960-86 do not have these dots? If so, then....yeah, I'm confused.