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 Replies: 101 / Views: 10,382 |
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Valued Member
85 Posts |
talkcoin, I appreciate the apology. Thank you for saying that.
I agree with you and what I think is that there's likely not a good chance that these deceptive FS type of marketing tricks are going to vanish or vanish any time soon, but here's what I do know for sure; if those who find such things dishonest or ill-conceived don't voice an opposition to it, then without question such deceptions will be here forever and probably even get worse. So, I must, in good conscience denounce it even if there's likely not a very good chance that it will do much good. I hope that makes sense to you because I think we are more in agreement than in disagreement.
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Valued Member
85 Posts |
yup, I think you make some interesting observations and points. One thing that I think people are doing that I see as a mistake is calling "First Strike" a grading or a new grading. "First Strike" is not a grade at all, it simply signifies that a coin was received by a TPG within a certain time frame. Grading is a professional evaluation of the condition of the coin irrespective of when the TPG received it. You could hypothetically have a MS60 First Strike that to me is worth far less to me than an MS70 (no "First Strike" label). These deceptive FS descriptions are not and never should be considered a grade / grading of a coin. I am not opposed to coin grading by TPGs, I am opposed to deceptive marketing by TPGs. |
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Valued Member
85 Posts |
Call Nick, I agree with you...I think these different labels (some being very deceptive), do add some difficulty and confusion to the hobby of coin collecting.
BTW, your avatar is very cool!
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Valued Member
United States
335 Posts |
This set already @ $180-$200 on ebay - I detect a run on these, similar to the previous 2-coin set. They'll hit $250 a pop in no time - |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Yes, agreed and I never made the argument that they weren't. You understand my point though....that calling a coin a "First Strike" when all they can assure is that a coin gets to them by a certain date is....anything but honest. I actually dont think its dishonest. Was it the greatest choice of words maybe not, but I honestly dont think that most people think about what it really means they just see its going for more and assign a higher value to it. It was a marketing ploy by the TPGs for sure to bring in extra money. I actually blame the HSNs of the world for perpetuating the whole it was struck first ect thing. Those types of retailers are the ones that really hounded that point spreading the myth more than anything and sell those for huge mark ups, for the most part at least what I look at on ebay the first strike premiums are fairly minimal. The unopened boxes from the mint get a premium but I suspect thats more so that buyers no the order wasnt cherry picked. |
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Valued Member
United States
110 Posts |
mmissinglink: it does make sense to me and I do feel we are on the same page more than not. Your drive to speak up in this matter is enthusiastic, as Napoleon once said "Ten people who speak make more noise than ten thousand people who are silent." but in the end, Napoleon needed to feed his war chest with funds (Louisiana purchase and so on). I feel that it is just too late to change this. Today money talks louder than ten thousand people who shout at the top of their lungs. It's almost like a sportsbook in that Joe-public is usually wrong, but without him, there would be no Action. As said by a previous poster, this was most likely a marketing ploy and it has certainly paid off for PCGS. I believe it is free to get the ER from NGC, but PCGS charges an extra $18 or maybe more to get the FS... But PCGS coins in PR70 FS for the SF 2-coin set dominated and continue to dominate the market. I feel that because they charge more for the FS designation than the actual cost of the actual cost to grade a modern coin, their population#'s are much much lower and therefore bring more $$$ on the market. Just to think that today, the 2013 WP 2-coin set had so many orders that it only took a couple hours for the FS ER shipping date to be cut off. The SF 2-coin set took a week or two before they changed the expected ship date. So the sharks have bitten and anyone who orders this set from the Mint from this time forward will NOT be eligible for the FS or ER designation. The expected shipping dates where 6/17, 7/11 then 7/25 (which is a BUST from here on forward) and is now in August. So I am assuming that the flippers realized that and ordered tons extra of this set than the SF set and now real collectors will buy thir 150k or more. The Action today makes m feel that this sets mintage will be in the 400k maybe 500k range by the end of the month. It's an open world that keeps getting squeezed like an orange at a smoothie shop... Get in where you fit in  Erik Edited by talkcoin
05/10/2013 02:26 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
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. So the sharks have bitten and anyone who orders this set from the Mint from this time forward will NOT be eligible for the FS or ER designation. The expected shipping dates where 6/17, 7/11 then 7/25 (which is a BUST from here on forward) and is now in August. So I am assuming that the flippers realized that and ordered tons extra of this set than the SF set and now real collectors will buy thir 150k or more. The Action today makes m feel that this sets mintage will be in the 400k maybe 500k range by the end of the month. ....until those who actually ARE into getting these graded with an ER or FS label realize that and cancel a bunch of sets (close to 25k SF sets were returned after sales ended.) SO the only premium will be for the early delivered sets which should keep the mintage below a 300k final adjusted number.... We'll see....the 1st sales number will be high and then sales will slow down dramatically.. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
SF set returns were more due to quality and other issues than fs/er imo. After seeing how few came back 70s a lot of people that were planing to send in themselves didn't, some probably got tired of the return process, and then the real late final ship date almost certainly led to people just buying one with how many were on the market for literally the same price.
They certainly would have had cancellations either way, but if the quality was better I imagine they would have been far less. Was kind of the perfect storm to justify canceling all things considered
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5863 Posts |
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I agree with you and what I think is that there's likely not a good chance that these deceptive FS type of marketing tricks are going to vanish or vanish any time soon... I wouldn't be too sure about that! I personally think that TPG companies provide a valuable service overall and that properly graded and slabbed coins will, in general, maintain a higher resale value in the long term. "Gimmicks" like ES and FS labels, however, remind me of my comic book collecting days in the 80s when nearly every other issue that came out had variant hologram chrome covers in an effort to make comics printed in the millions seem somehow "collectible" and "rare". It worked for awhile as collectors bought multiple copies of each variant and stored them away (or else tried to flip them for a quick profit), but after a few years the whole market crashed and now they are basically worthless. I understand a similar thing happened in the world of sports trading cards, although I wasn't collecting those. Obviously, bullion will always have intrinsic value and will never become totally worthless. And, as I said, a properly graded and slabbed MS70 ASE will likely always command a premium over a raw example (event thought they really are bullion and not numismatic products). But I fully expect that within 5-10 years at the most, nobody will care about FS or ER labels (except for the people that paid extra for them in the first place and are left holding the bag after the market for them collapses). The same will likely be the case with the Mercanti signatures that seem to be accompanying some of the sets recently. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
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They certainly would have had cancellations either way, but if the quality was better I imagine they would have been far less. Was kind of the perfect storm to justify canceling all things considered The quality of the SF sets did suck...and West Point is know for pumping out some great coins... It will be interesting to watch...I still say if the numbers go above 250-300k there will be a bunch of returns/cancellations irregardless of quality |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
I agree with that especially if a lot of orders are in the late shipping date. If the set catches an immediate resale premium I think they'll be minimal and certainly don't expect a repeat of last year.
I think the immediate collector demand is around 150k and anything over that is strickly for resale.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1817 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
396 Posts |
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GR58
Posted Yesterday 4:22 pm
My order says it it scheduled to ship 6/17/2013 Same for me. Edit: Just checked the site. Back to business as usual - no delays, but the shipping date for current orders has gone all the way to August 8. Edited by BigAppleBucky
05/10/2013 12:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
Quote:
First day's sales are 140,648. WOW!....this will obviously not be a premium low mintage set.... That's almost 60k more than day 1 SF set |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1255 Posts |
Maybe large slaes of this set will increase the value of the SF set in time?
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Replies: 101 / Views: 10,382 |
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Posted 05/10/2013 12:12 am
