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 Replies: 15 / Views: 2,015 |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
287 Posts |
If I could get some help with I.D's please, Also any views on authenticity Weight is 4.3grams Diam' between 19-21mm   |
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
This is a nice looking Solidus of the Roman emperor Honorius, IMO the coin is real.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I have reviewed 70 solidii, to be found on Wildwinds and VCOINS.
The reverse image as appears here does not appear on any of the 70 reviewed solidii of Honorius. I did not find a profile of Honorius facing left.
The lettering in this case looks somewhat inconsistent within itself. I did not find this characteristic with the other 70 images I reviewed.
The overall texture if the surfaces look quite OK.
The weight is probably OK; typical solidii of Honorius normally weigh at 4.4 grammes, but this one is within acceptable variation; it may have been slightly filed or clipped, but there does not seem to be evidence to be gleaned from these 'face on' pictures.
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Moderator
Australia
16869 Posts |
I haven't found any match for either the reverse type nor the left-facing bust on a solidus, either - but I did find plenty of the silver "light miliarense" with this design. Scroll down to RIC X 369 on this Wildwinds page for examples. The ancient Romans never would have made such a coin deliberately - being roughly the same weight as a solidus, it would have been too easy to plate a miliarense and make an instant eighteenfold profit. The Romans would have realised this and kept the designs for the two coin types separate. So this coin is either a genuine silver miliarense that someone has (recently) gold-plated to pass off as a solidus - for why I don't know, since miliarensia are so scarce they are worth about the same as a gold solidus - or the fake-makers are carelessly using their silver coin dies to make fake gold coins, too. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Valued Member
 United Kingdom
287 Posts |
Thanks guys,
I had the same problem, I searched after echizento identified the coin as Honorius and could not find the coin anywhere and also found that every coin I seen had the head facing the other way.
So in this scenario, would the consensus be that it is fake?
Is there any chance that this could be a very rare coin? Is there anyway of really knowing? What advice could be given?
I am now very torn, because as much as I am very careful to not buy fake coins, the only indication that it is fake is that we cannot find another like it. In this case, it could be 1 of 3 things:
A silver coin coated in gold, probably worth nothing.
A gold fake coin worth melt, about £120
Or a Gold ultra rare coin worth possibly a huge amount?
Now I think I could negotiate this coin for about $300-$350
If there was a way of me checking its authentic after I purchased, I would buy in the hope if its not, that I can probably get to send it back.
Would really like some views on my situation.
Thanks
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
If the seller is prepared to take it back, you could always send it to David Sear for authentication.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I would submit these images to Baldwin's in London, or possibly even the British Museum. (or both)
With some patience and luck, you may get a good opinion.
Don't give up just yet!
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I have no doubt that they will ask you something of it's provenance.
Edited by sel_69l
01/28/2014 06:14 am
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
287 Posts |
Thanks guys, appreciate it.
I have sent the images to Baldwins and British museum, fingers crossed I hear back from them
I have also emailed D.Sears with my dilemma and pics, I am aware that he is kind of the king in this area and has brought out the most informative books etc... hopefully I am thinking of the right person :) But I am hoping, that if he/they read the email and think the coin may be genuine that they may be forward in investigating if this is a coin not yet to feature in his books?
What kind of financial gamble would I be taking? as in, if this got confirmed as a genuine coin, and is quite/ ultra rare, what kind of value does it have the potential to hold?
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
287 Posts |
Its people like you guys and David who make this a very nice hobby, always happy to give 5 mins to help,
To conclude, please see below David R.Sear response
Dear Matt,
This is clearly a modern forgery and is copied from the type of a silver light miliarensis struck at Constantinople under Theodosius II (see RIC Vol. 10, p. 268, no. 369 and plate 16, and Roman Silver Coins Vol. 5, p. 183, no. 19A). It does not exist in gold and the only value it may have is in the metal, assuming it is of gold.
I would be happy to answer any other questions you may have.
Regards,
David R. Sear
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
I take it you have forwarded this to the seller, I would be interested in his response.
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
This one fooled me. Glad that you were able to contact David. He really know his stuff.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
Good to have guys like Sap around here, in the CCF. Nailed it again!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4981 Posts |
man....well, it sure does look pretty. I didn't know if it was real or not, but did think that i'd never seen anything like it.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
287 Posts |
I have notified the seller, the Coin ended up selling for £442, it is an ebay seller, quite a large seller actually, I was watching this, and another 4 gold coins that they were selling, 3 1700's Spanish coins and 1 portugese 1700's coin. Having a look on the completed items, they sell a few coins, some they put under the category of 'fine jewellery' but some they put in coins, not sure if they put in fine jewellery the ones they believe are not genuine? Or if it is due to the fees being less in fine jewellery. Re-reading the listing, I wonder if it is deliberately falsified: 'Please find for sale extremely fine quality pure gold ' Gloria Romanorum Con' Roman coin. The coin measures 2.1cm x 1.9cm. The coin weighs 4.3 grammes and is offered in very good condition for it's age.' Which to a collector means great condition for 1500 years old Then late in listing states: All our items are sent without boxes unless stated and all our jewellery is secondhand/antique, so may require a clean. This may be backup in case someone who receives realises its not a genuine Roman coin. So the very good condition for its age could be referring to the fact it being second hand/ antique I don't know if the seller will do the right thing and notify the buyer, I guess that is not my businesses but I feel it was the right thing to do to notify them. Its a real shame coins like this are made with the wrong intension because if they were marked as modern, they could have there own collectors and value at above melt because they can be nice coins, but its the fact of the trickery and false history that is put in them. I am guessing its wrong to name and shame them? |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
If the seller continued with the sale after he had been notified that it was a fake, the that needs to be reported. If it were me, I would contact ebay and report the matter, give them your evidence from David Sear, this is out and out fraud. If they do nothing, at least your conscience is clear. If the matter is not resolved, then I would say name and shame, to protect other people. Also on forvmancientcoins, there is a place where you can report sellers, you can have their name put on a list of "Dodgy ebay sellers". |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3446 Posts |
This is an excellent example why ancient gold coins (and many silver too !) give me 'gas'.
When so much 'lucre' can be made by fooling the 'average' collector and dazzling the eyes with gorgeous fakes all aglitter ...... well what chance does a 'dolt' like myself stand ? While my decision to limit myself to bronze coins was primarily one of economics the fact that I could be fooled without so much as a second thought scared me away from all that glitters. The worst part I think is our own desire when we see such opportunities. We want it to be real so very much that we simply disregard all the warning signs.
"There is one born every minute"
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Replies: 15 / Views: 2,015 |
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Posted 01/27/2014 7:13 pm
