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Purchasing From A Museum

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Valued Member

Canada
242 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2014  12:16 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add markbaer to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This may be a naive question, so I apologize in advance!

Has anyone had any experience with attempting to purchase coins directly from a museum? Do museums ever 'sell' their coins, for example, to make room and raise money for new inventory?

I would imagine that if this a possibility, they would likely give a fair price, and have the documentation of authenticity?

Thanks!
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persistnt's Avatar
Canada
726 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2014  01:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add persistnt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
,. .,. And I like Your question.Hope others will post- I say a Museum never sells to general public (Other Museums yes).
Edited by persistnt
07/05/2014 01:25 am
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Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2014  02:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not likely. I'm sure some do via auction, but I'm sure theres some code museums follow that stop them selling their objects. You can sell to some of them, but I think most museums keep a permanent collection.
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ace_ftw's Avatar
Canada
1747 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2014  03:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ace_ftw to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it would depend on the museum, are we talking the Louvre, or are we talking Idaho state museum? Small museums don't have the cash flow to maintain a large variety, and might over time sell items. they may also trade with other museums. I think the other person is correct if they have something of significant value, they would put it in a very reputable auction house.
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pishpash's Avatar
United Kingdom
3626 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2014  06:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pishpash to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have any experience of this place but:

http://www.museumsurplus.com/RomanCoinsPAGE1.htm
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2014  07:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've not heard of any museum selling any of their collections. Museum collections are made up of their holdings alone with collections that are on loan from other museums and private collections. Also collections are donated to a museum from benefactors that have passed away. With that being said if their holdings get too large I'm sure that a museum might consider selling off some of the less valuable pieces.
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Canada
579 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2014  09:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Whizb4ng to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Boston Museum of Fine arts sold off a large portion of their collection and they pop up in auctions now and then. Generally a museum will not sell their artefacts though.

Pish - I don't believe that website has any connection to a museum. At least from my brief look they don't list any provenance to a museum which would be silly since it will increase the price of the coin.

Edit: I would say you are less likely to get a fair price at a museum then from a dealer.
Edited by Whizb4ng
07/05/2014 09:24 am
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16868 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2014  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It does depend in part of the nature of the museum and the nature of the items being sold. The Museum of Ancient Greek Coins would not sell any of it's ancient Greek coins; the whole purpose of such a museum would be to acquire, store, preserve and display exactly those items. But if someone donated some ancient Greek coins to the Tri-County Square Dancing Museum, then yes, they probably would sell them... or perhaps pass them on to another museum that actually wanted them.

But as a general rule, no, museums almost never sell off their collections and on the rare occasions they do, they never have a "fire sale" and offer things for sale from the museum premises you can just walk in and buy. What you are much more likely to be able to obtain from a museum gift shop is replicas, since they have no ethical problem with selling replicas.

You need to understand, there is a war out there. On one side are the museums, archaeologists, academics and historians. On the other are the collectors, dealers and metal detectorists. The first group generally believe that the past is our common heritage and must be preserved, preferably in publically-funded hands since private individuals can't be trusted with it. They believe artefacts are priceless and should never be assigned "market values" at all; that's why the County Museum guys on shows like Pawn Stars never ever talk about value, no matter how much the pawnbroker wants them to. Collectors and the collecting industry that goes along with it are The Enemy: it is our fault that the artefacts they would like to acquire cost so much. And it is our fault that looters and smugglers are tempted to break local laws to steal antiquities to sell them overseas, smashing and destroying archaeology in the process.

In some countries, the anti-collectors are in the ascendancy and collectors there are persecuted like a minority ethnic or religious group in a totalitarian state. In others, such as Britain, there is an uneasy truce. But the co-operation between the two factions is still very minimal. Case in point: the British Museum used to offer a free public coin identification service; anyone could simply walk in and ask the experts there to ID their coins. Last year, they found out that (shock! gasp! the horror!) coin collectors and even coin dealers were amongst those using their service. So they changed policy: the service is still free but you need to provide acceptable provenance documentation for non-British coins before they will ID them for you. And "I bought it from a coin dealer" is not acceptable provenance, unless you can prove you bought it before 1970.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2014  2:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think that Sap's description of the cultural property battle is a great summation of the situation. I believe that both sides have their hearts in the right place, even though their stances are diametrically opposed. Given the fact that ancient coins were minted by the hundreds of thousands, I personally have a bit of a hard time viewing coin ownership as I might view the ownership of, say, a funerary implement or statuary or a unique architectural fragment.

The collecting of ancient coins is a learning-focused hobby that fosters an understanding and celebration of the history, world view, politics, and iconography of ancient societies. Every other month I get together with ancient coin collectors in my community and we look at coins and discuss these things...that is, we celebrate ancient cultures and history, and we research and learn together. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that anyone would consider what our group does in a negative light, as cultural piracy â€" as something that is evil and that needs to stop. To me it just seems wrong to try to impede learning and to relegate even more coins to those dusty boxes in basements of museums and academic buildings, never to see the light of day.

In my opinion the collecting and study of these coins has never been the threat, as portrayed, with regard to the cultural property issue. As a collector and educator, I've had the unique pleasure of using coins from my collection in class, where my students could hold them in their hands and ponder at the fact that these same specimens were held by people two millennia ago. What a tangible way to make history come alive for an 18-year-old inner city American kid! Calling this a threat to cultural identity â€" or portraying it as disrespectful or as cultural piracy â€" just doesn't jibe with what it really is: a celebration of the individuals and cultures that created these objects.

Having said all this, I can simultaneously appreciate the fact that folks on the other side of the issue take their position, like collectors do, out of respect for ancient cultures. And they are right that looting of sites takes place because there is a market out there. Like I said, their hearts are in the right place.

Sorry to have taken this thread in a different direction than Markbaer intended...I blame Sap. ;-)
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2014  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just to add to what I wrote previously (in an attempt to create a clearer tie-in to the topic): Museums do occasionally sell off ("deaccess" is the proper word, actually) artifacts, but rarely coins. The irony is that there are likely many thousands of coins (Wayne Sayles, in "Ancient Coin Collecting," speculates there are millions) sitting, unstudied and unseen and unappreciated, in museums' and academic institutions' storage areas around the world. I'm not suggesting these should necessarily be on the market...but rather pointing out that it is a sad situation.
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chrsmat71's Avatar
United States
4973 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2014  6:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrsmat71 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I could see some of the type of coins being of use to archeologist at a dig site if they were trying to figure out dates, the social class of people at the site, and stuff like that. after all that has been cataloged, I don't see what having a dirt common soldiers with standards coin stored in a school basement and never seeing the light of day again is doing for the academic side.
Valued Member
Canada
242 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  12:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markbaer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting...and thanks to everyone for their insights. I've emailed a few museums in several countries, including the UK and Canada (where I am). So far, the only museum to respond has been the Royal Ontario Museum (ROM) in Toronto. They said that they would forward my query to the world cultures department, who 'should reply shortly'.

I was hoping that a given museum might have a surplus of a particular sort of coin, and therefore be willing to sell it in order to raise funds for another type of coin or other artifact... But I suppose that they may simply elect to exchange it with another museum instead.

I have about 800 unattributed silver crusader coins (a minority, about 15 of these, are Levon; the remainder are a mixture of Mamluk, Ayyubid, and Mongolian/genghis khan coins - I thought that potentially they may even be willing to trade depending on what they were looking for themselves.
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