Previously Graded Morgans Re-Graded As Genuine-Details

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Author	Replies: 5 / Views: 2,391
roamerlabrador New Member United States 31 Posts	Posted 09/28/2014 2:29 pm I am still relatively new to collecting Morgans, and continue to learn some hard lessons. A small group of coins that I recently submitted to PCGS for restoration-regrading included an 1881-s (vam-54b) that had been graded by ANACS as AU55 and an 1878-s (vam-36b) that had been graded by ICG as MS61. The 1881-s came back from PCGS as Genuine-environmental damage, and the 1878-s came back as Genuine-cleaned. I was prepared for risk as to change of numerical grade, but admittedly was hoping that purchasing a coin from one of the 'four big' graders would greatly diminish the likelihood of the coin later being judged a problem coin. I realize there is some risk of restoration results, but to be 2-for-2 on these cross-graded coins being declared Details is frustrating. It seems to me there should be a reasonable expectation that if, due to darkening or other surface appearance, a professional grader could not confidently determine a numerical grade, they should have been upfront about that. Edited by roamerlabrador 09/29/2014 01:51 am Report this Post to the Staff

CherreePicker Valued Member 440 Posts	Posted 09/28/2014 5:24 pm Were these coins heavily toned & then went through the restoration process? Report this Post to the Staff
roamerlabrador New Member United States 31 Posts	Posted 09/28/2014 11:26 pm Hi CherreePicker, I submitted these coins via PCGS's restoration form. I have attached a photo of the 1881-s prior to sending to PCGS. This is the first time I have submitted previously graded coins for restoration. Your question makes me realize that I got a bit ahead of myself in my post, in that PCGS has listed the results of my submittal online, but photos are not available and I have not yet received the coins back. I had assumed PCGS did attempt to restore the coins and then regraded them as listed but now am not sure. I imagine they should be able to decide whether to restore before removing a coin from the existing holder (although I need to learn about their policy on this). Perhaps they did not remove the coins from the existing holders, and when I receive the coins will update this post. I have mixed feelings on this situation, in that I was hoping restoration might really improve appearance of this 1881-s coin and the 1878-s that PCGS states was cleaned, but if PCGS and other graders have different opinions as to their gradability, I would probably prefer they remain in the holders as purchased. Thanks for any input that you might have. Report this Post to the Staff
CherreePicker Valued Member 440 Posts	Posted 09/29/2014 07:10 am I would be interested in the outcome. Looking at the coin you posted there appears to be "halos" around the stars; the splotchy pattern of toning is also suspect with regards to an "old cleaning". Don't beat yourself up over this. We have all been in your shoes with regards to having a coin turn out to be a "details coin". In the long run it forces you to increase your coin evaluation skill levels and become better at the game. My impression with cross overs at PCGS (and I may be wrong) was that they would evaluate NGC coins in the holder and only regrade (which requires removing the coin from the holder to re-slab)if it remained at the same grade or higher. Otherwise the coin would remain in the NGC holder. For other companies like ANACS & ICG I was under the impression that their policy was to remove the coin from the holders prior to re-grading, restoration, etc. as they do not honor crossovers from those other companies. You may want to contact PCGS to see if those coins were removed from the original holders. My guess is that those 2 VAMS will come back in PCGS holders with a details grade. BTW those are 2 really nice varieties. If it were me I would want to know the true condition of those coins and I would not pass them along to another buyer without them knowing the true condition of the coins. Toning especially heavy toning can hide lots of problems. Please update as I am curious as to how PCGS handles this situation. Report this Post to the Staff
SsuperDdave Moderator United States 23522 Posts	Posted 09/29/2014 12:10 pm If they are listing your coins as Genuine/Details, they'd better not show any signs of "restoration" when they get back. How would you ever be able to know if it was something they did that caused the Genuine designation? Wow. I'd drag them over the coals in public if they did something like that to me. That said. The 1881 is too darkly toned for any sensible "conservation" process to restore. As a professional looking at it, I'd say, "Um, no." What you've run into here, I think, is the prevailing paranoia among TPG's regarding their potential liability for a value claim when one of their duds is caught in a slab. They got burned very badly by the coin doctors a few years ago, and they've cycled over to the other end of the scale. The slightest doubt leads to a Genuine designation these days. Heck, you might resubmit both in a few months and get them back in righteous slabs. Report this Post to the Staff
smokeriderdon Pillar of the Community United States 3755 Posts	Posted 09/29/2014 3:14 pm Isee nothing on that coin that would call for a genuine environmental damage grade. There is nothing to "restore" in my mind. You simply have a coin that sat and got tarnished and was then lightly circulated. Thats how I interpret what I see there. I think ANACS got it right on and PCGS did their usual below par job. Just another example of them being meh at best and relying on rep to get them by. Report this Post to the Staff
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