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When The End Of The Cent Is Near.....

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jbuck's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/21/2015  2:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the governments starts to actively reclaim the metal, the survival numbers will go down over time.

Then again, with Zincolns those numbers are going to go down on their own as the cents disintegrate.
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 Posted 01/21/2015  2:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Groszy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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They wouldn't be any more rare than they are right now.

Not initially. You can still find wheats in circulation. People dump collections all the time.

Take a look at Canada. Every year when the RCM releases their outstanding liabilities, you see lower and lower amounts of outstanding $1 and $2 banknotes. I think the last one they released showed the outstanding amount of Provincial noted dropped for the first time on their chart.

It'll take many, many decades, but cents would be returned to the banks in enough numbers to make the surviving populations "rare enough" to make them worth while. People might hoard them initially like they did with Barr bills when they heard they'd be "rare", but as a few years pass and no one has interest in buying cents for 1000 times face value, how many people will decide to take them at a bank? My guess is a lot.
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scurry64's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2015  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scurry64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm getting a headache from this thread. I'm gonna go try to figure the Russell Index now.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2015  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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I'm getting a headache from this thread. I'm gonna go try to figure the Russell Index now.
It it really that bad?
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scurry64's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2015  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scurry64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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It it really that bad?

Probably not. Perhaps I'm just grumpy. If so, I apologize.
When-The-End-Of-The-Cent-Is-Near.....
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scottk's Avatar
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767 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2015  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scottk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, I think we ought to get rid of the nickel instead.

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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2015  6:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Probably not. Perhaps I'm just grumpy. If so, I apologize.
No need to apologize.

Of course we all know the easiest way to stop these threads from bothering us...

Stop making cents.
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DoubleEagle20's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2015  6:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DoubleEagle20 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will be utterly shocked that our politicians for once made a good decision. If they get rid of the nickel too, and go to tens, I just may have a heart attack...lol.
Edited by DoubleEagle20
01/21/2015 6:44 pm
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matttheriley's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2015  6:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matttheriley to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wait for it.......



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ConfederateHalf's Avatar
United States
79 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2015  7:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ConfederateHalf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If the governments starts to actively reclaim the metal, the survival numbers will go down over time.

Then again, with Zincolns those numbers are going to go down on their own as the cents disintegrate.


Excellent points, JBuck. I'd like to add a few thoughts about what I think will happen to the Zincolns minted since 1982. While billions and billions were minted I predict that billions and billions will ultimately be melted or otherwise lost or destroyed because most people really HATE the modern Zincoln cent because it is not only useless in commerce but most of the coins become foul and nasty after a very short time in circulation. I see kids and adults throwing them on the ground routinely in disgust! If 200 to 300 million Americans keep doing this on a daily basis the attrition rate will be very high and very rapid. These will not be hoarded like the coppers IMHO. They will most likely be withdrawn EN MASSE from circulation by the Fed and returned to the mint for melting once Congress finally kills off the cent. In the meantime they will continue to be tossed on the ground or left in penny jars to zinc rot away over time.

Also, I disagree that these coins will never be of value or interest to future collectors. Most Zincolns are inherently quite difficult to find in truly "gem" condition. I search rolls and find 99.9% of them to be of very disappointing quality. Yes, the strikes are usually sharp and BU ones are very shiny but that rinse bath they give them at the U.S. Mint not only fails to prevent zinc rot but it tends to leave ugly "dishwasher spots" on the coins. Yech! . This unsightly spotting leaves even the better grade mint state examples looking most unappealing to the eye.

Furthermore, the new shield reverse is particularly hard to find without distracting bag marks. Being of zinc composition already seems to make them more susceptible to damage, but there is also just something about that reverse design that seems to highlight every little hit - especially when viewed under a 7x loupe. Too many flat areas in the devices and the outlines in the shield catch lots of little annoying nicks and dings and they all scream at you when you examine the reverse.

It is a bona fide challenge to find super grade BU Zincolns that are truly devoid of bag marks and washing spots. Smart collectors should be cherry picking BU rolls of Shield Cents to set aside and in some instances slabbing any business strikes of MS67 or higher with clean un-spotted surfaces and excellent eye appeal. These will be scarce someday IMO despite their uber-high MINTAGE numbers because too few people are doing this now, much as collectors failed to do with early clad coinage of the 1960's and 1970's, many of which are now very hard to find in super grade BU despite their very high modern mintages. These will be "condition rarities" and prices will rise as collectors of the series struggle to add high grade gems to their PCGS Registry Sets of Lincoln's. Given the long-standing high popularity of this series I don't think there can be much doubt that this will ultimately come to pass.
Edited by ConfederateHalf
01/21/2015 7:34 pm
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 Posted 01/21/2015  7:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add iamwayne to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pennies will not go away, try convincing the public to re-price all merchandices/services to not use any numbers resulting in 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9 cents and changing all the tax rates too. Rounding up the numbers will cause the people to complain and when you round down tax collectors will complain... No more 99cents cheeseburgers...
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n9jig's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2015  8:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add n9jig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And there it is!
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ConfederateHalf's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2015  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ConfederateHalf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Pennies will not go away, try convincing the public to re-price all merchandices/services to not use any numbers resulting in 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9 cents and changing all the tax rates too. Rounding up the numbers will cause the people to complain and when you round down tax collectors will complain... No more 99cents cheeseburgers...


Normally I would agree with your reasoning, but Canadians act and think pretty much the same as Americans do when it comes to spending their money and that didn't stop their politicians from ditching the Canadian Cent a couple of years ago. I think, eventually, the cent will go away, just like the half-cent did in the mid-19th century.

Personally, I'd like to see us retire cents, nickels, and $1 bills. Then the dollar coins and $2 bills could and would finally circulate and there would be room in cash registers for them once the other denominations were discontinued, but now I digress from our topic.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 01/22/2015  10:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Also, I disagree that these coins will never be of value or interest to future collectors. Most Zincolns are inherently quite difficult to find in truly "gem" condition
Truth.


Quote:
Pennies will not go away, try convincing the public to re-price all merchandices/services to not use any numbers resulting in 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9 cents and changing all the tax rates too. Rounding up the numbers will cause the people to complain and when you round down tax collectors will complain... No more 99cents cheeseburgers...
Not this again.


Sales tax is applied to the total sale so individual pricing does not matter. They are based on percentage and rounded accordingly. Rounding after sales tax goes up or down to the nearest, not the highest. When rounding to the nearest five cents (or ten cents), over time, the amount paid evens out.

Cents and percents are not equivalent. Everyone is Charleston SC gets along fine with a 8.5% sales tax and no Half Cent coin. If the Half Cent really mattered, like some think the cent does, then why not just call it 9%? Because it is not the same! Rounding already occurs because of sales taxes, this is true with or without the cent; losing the cent is not going to change anything.

Places in Canada have decided to round down just to avoid that misconception of being ripped off. There are multiple places where I live that round cash transactions down since they are not paying the EFT fee a card user would cost them. When the cent is gone, rounding down will be the norm here since businesses like happy customers!

By the way, we can keep the cent for pricing and electronic transactions, no problem. Canada seems to be doing well up there. No civil unrest, no insurrections, and no cents.
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 Posted 01/22/2015  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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My interest in US cents ended when the Mint began producing the shield cent. So, whatever happens now is of no interest to me.

sort of my feelings too. Only problem is I still have so many empty slots in my albums for all those future ones. Just no interest in what they produce if at all.
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