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Coins Of India - Indian Princely States

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drnsreedhar's Avatar
India
1995 Posts
 Posted 07/29/2017  3:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drnsreedhar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
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yellow88's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 07/30/2017  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
drnsreedhar,

Thank you very much for responding to my message. I feel privileged to have a prestigious numismatic and the leading expert of Indian coinage take a look at my humble coins.

If you would prefer to communicate in Hindi please let me know.

Despite having a camera that has proved ideal for capturing the minute details, depicting tone and color realistically, differentiating field surfaces and textures of almost all variety of coinage at very high resolution all three of these coins are too small for my camera's technology to produce detailed photographs.

Monday I will be purchasing a photographic device will allow me to capture the full details of all three coins. I am planning to post the detailed photographs immediately after taking them.

The photographs below are the best I currently have but are blurry and of poor quality.

I have three coins I am trying to accurately identify, verify authenticity and determine provenance. The two coins that have an elephant on their face are extremely small. They are a fraction of the size of the third coin which itself is very small. These are the smallest coins I have ever seen.

A "best guess" description derived from my exhaustive research of the two varieties follows:


#1 The two coins featuring an elephant on the face I believe are of the same variety


India, 1080-1138AD, Western Gangas Elephant (Gajapati) Gold Fanam Coin

Reference link: http://coins.lakdiva.org/medievalin...anam_au.html

DESCRIPTION:

The Elephant was the crest of the dynasty called Gangas. Western Gangas with capital Talkad in 450 AD is modern Karnataka (Mysore).

The Gajapati fanams were probably introduced about 1080 when Gangavadi emerged from Chola domination. They may have circulated in Lanka alongside the similar pagoda coin.

Govind Prabhu of India who has researched these coins, comments that these coins are extremely scarce and that this is a amazingly fine genuine specimen which looking at this particular elephant style could be dated back to 12th century AD. Pankaj Tandon felt the reverse looked more like a Rooster.

Is this the world's smallest and rarest gold coin? It is of the same weight as the Hoysalas gold Fanam coin which is however thinner and larger (8mm) and was marketed in US with this title.

PROVENANCE:

The coins were won via silent auction during a charity event, in May of 1983, held at Reynolda Gardens in Winston-Salem, NC. They were part of the Reynold's Family collection of coins and antiquities. Members of the Reynolds Family amassed a museum quality collection over many generations' world travels. The Reynolds Family assure a lifetime guarantee these coins are genuine.

SPECIFICATIONS:

Denomination One Fanam
Alloy Gold , plus
Type Struck
Diameter App. 5.8 mm
Weight App. 0.39 gms
Thickness App. 1.6 mm
Shape Round
Edge Plain
Die Axis 90°
Mitchiner #703 or variation there of
Mitchiner states Anonymous: circa 1080 - 1138 & perhaps later.
Obverse : Caparisoned elephant facing the right.
Reverse : An ornamental floral scroll. Peacock ?


#2 The larger, non-elephant coin

India-Princely States Gold Fanam Coin

PROVENANCE:

The coin was won via silent auction during a charity event, in May of 1983, held at Reynolda Gardens in Winston-Salem, NC. They were part of the Reynold's Family collection of coins and antiquities. Members of the Reynolds Family amassed a museum quality collection over many generations' world travels. The Reynolds Family assure a lifetime guarantee these coins are genuine.

Warm regards,
Yellow88
Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
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Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
Pillar of the Community
drnsreedhar's Avatar
India
1995 Posts
 Posted 07/30/2017  1:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drnsreedhar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello yellow88
Your coins are good ones. The gold coin is genuine by appearance and weight also corresponds to the gold fanam series (400mgs) that was prevalent in South India.
Caprisoned elephant and floral design coins were issued by Western Gangas. Higher weight standard coins also are there.

The other coin also is a fanam. On one side there is a figure like "om" written in Devanagari.
Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States

This figure varies between countries of issue or dynasties. Similar coins have been issued in Travancore, Kochi (Cochin), Coorg, Tanjore and some other countries. Mitchiner's work and that of Barbara Mears are two of the best to consult. I do not know much in detail about these coins. Here are links to some similar ones.

https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...-022-001.jpg

https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...-085-032.jpg

https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...-085-016.jpg

https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...-085-017.jpg

The Ganga coin and the other fanam are not the smallest gold coins issued. Travancore is said to have issued half fanams with half this weight.

I can understand Hindi and speak a little but not very fluent.

Regarding the last coin you posted, I am unable to precisely attribute that to any ruler or dynasty or even the country. I will keep searching for it and any lead will be communicated.

Thanks
Edited by drnsreedhar
07/30/2017 1:53 pm
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yellow88's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 07/30/2017  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you so much. I have two of the Ganga coins and under extreme magnification they are both incredibly detailed and appear (I am going to err on the side of caution and lack of grading skills) to be almost uncirculated.

Tomorrow I am purchasing what's needed to take extremely detailed, high resolution photographs of the tiny Ganga coins. I will post them soon afterwards.

I can not find a picture of a coin that is exactly like the Ganga coins I have. I have scoured international search engines for over 80 hours.

Not being able to find a pic of my Ganga coin along with the condition started making me think they are fakes.

If they are in fact real and even nicer than the pics I've posted do know their value? I was also thinking about donating them anonymously to a local museum. I wonder what you think about that idea?
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drnsreedhar's Avatar
India
1995 Posts
 Posted 07/30/2017  2:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drnsreedhar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These are wonderful coins. If you are a numismatist with interest in South Indian coins, these are some of the best you can keep in your collection. If not interested, museum option may be considered.
Regarding its cost, I am very poor in assessment. Thanks
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yellow88's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 07/30/2017  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think I am going to donate them to a local museum.

I think there uniqueness would attract interest and attention hence exposing people to and opening their minds to discover an amazing, wonderful culture with an incredible rich history.

A country most Americans know little about and will never afford the opportunity to visit and experience in person.

I will post much better photos tomorrow.

Thank you again Sir.
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drnsreedhar's Avatar
India
1995 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2017  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drnsreedhar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rangaraya-1


Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
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drnsreedhar's Avatar
India
1995 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2017  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drnsreedhar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
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Finn235's Avatar
United States
6130 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2017  12:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can contribute in time finally!

India, Vijayanagar Kingdom
Devaraya I 1406-1422
Silver Tara
5x6mm, 0.08g

Obv: "Deer" standing left, mouth open, scepter or dagger above
Rev: Indistinct/blank

US dime for scale


Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
Pillar of the Community
drnsreedhar's Avatar
India
1995 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2017  03:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drnsreedhar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great coin Finn235

Tara coins are one of the most attractive series. I am still hunting for information on why they are called so, how this became popular in different parts of India, how some of them came to have pattern resemblance with the panam coins etc.

Some numismatists believe that there were some local chieftains who had right to issue coins on their own. Gerusoppa is such a Chieftain's land. Some copper specimen of feudatory rulers like Lakhana dandanayaka also have been published. There are a few numismatists who attribute many of the tara coins now attributed to Vijayanagara to Hoysalas of Gujarat. So it is a task to precisely know what they really are and where they belong!!

I am relatively new to the non-sultanate medieval and ancient coins of India. I found one of your threads very exciting - that on "Gadhaiya" coins. Unfortunately I could not see most of the pics because of photobucket issue. I am not cyber savvy to find its solution. But the information therein is tremendous. Congratulations.
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drnsreedhar's Avatar
India
1995 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2017  07:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drnsreedhar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a slightly contraversial Tara specimen.
One version is that this is an issue of Harihara. The letter "ha" on the coin is said to represent his name. Another version is that it is an issue of Hoysalas and "ha" denotes "haga" denomination and the other marks are numeral for "two and a half".

Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States

Stylized lion (sardula) right, lingam within crescent above
Devanagari letter: ha, along with numerals 2+1/2 for the denomination


"Ganesh assigns this coin to the Hoysalas, Mitchiner to Vijayanagar. The obverse features a Hoysala type sardula, seen on the vira raya coinage, while the reverse seems to have the ha for Hari Hara and the denomination in the style of Hari Hara's coinage. It therefore seems to me more likely that this is a Vijayanagar issue harking back to the Hoysala origins of the empire."

This is an opinion expressed by coinindia at http://coinindia.com/galleries-vijayanagar.html

I am also inclined to think it is of Vijayanagara, but the alternate argument that the letter "ha" is for haga also looks very much appealing. So if it proves haga, it could be Hoysala and if Harihara, Vijayanagar. This will needs lots of discussion.
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Finn235's Avatar
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6130 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2017  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you!

I agree it is a shame about the Gadhaiya thread, but a blessing in disguise as I came to the realization halfway through that I would need to overhaul the discussion based on a few discoveries. I am meditating on the series a bit before I revive it again.

On the subject of tara coins - has the "base" weight been established? Information (in English at least) is pretty scant; I have only confirmed my seller's attribution through a Maridhar Arts auction. Other tara coins I have seen are significantly heavier, about .15 - .2g. If your coin is indeed a 2 1/2 denomination, that would seem to make sense of my coin, but perhaps the others are double denominations?

Also, I am really curious if you have any insights as to how coins such as mine are attributed so specifically. Perhaps contemporary literature mentions the designs ordered by the king?

Also, Obv and Rev detail since I did not include before:


Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States

The additional example had the same indistinct reverse- I wonder if it was supposed to be blank?
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drnsreedhar's Avatar
India
1995 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2017  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drnsreedhar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Finn235:)-

I feel that the other side of the coin had some figure that has worn out. Some remnants of a figure can be seen on the reverse image like part of a circle and an irregular incuse.

Regarding the weight, yes this weight standard is known.
I am posting some figures from the work "The Coins of the Vijayanagar Empire" by K.Ganesh and Dr.Girijapathy.
I regret the quality of my images, but I think you can get some information from them.




Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States

In figures 3,4 and 5, legend can be read. On others, there is little bit of presumption and he attributes them to Harihara. But one thing notable is that on Devaraya coin also letter "ha" before the numeral for two and a half is seen. So that could denote "haga". But other than this work, I am still unable to see something that can be reliably quoted.

Edited by drnsreedhar
08/08/2017 3:51 pm
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India
1995 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2017  12:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drnsreedhar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rangaraya-3


Coins-Of-India---Indian-Princely-States
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drnsreedhar's Avatar
India
1995 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2017  12:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drnsreedhar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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