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 Replies: 94 / Views: 19,143 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts |
After all this, I still also wonder why it's not a ms 65-66 lol!
I went back to the last page and in the images at the top, not the enlarged ones, you can even see these thin lines that move across the coin.
Never seen that on a coin from that time, Canada or otherwise. Closest thing is seeing it on the early nickel proof likes but I gathered those are marks from rolling the metal, before the blanks are cut, they run at different angles on same coins sitting side by side.
I wish ICCS could offer an explanation.
Coin hunter, what did you men by detailed sizing? I didn't understand that. Thx
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1461 Posts |
In response to the last 2 questions.
1. I did speak to Brian in person about the coin. He feels that although the surface might be slightly off (I am paraphrasing here), he feels the coin is authentic.
2. By "sizing" I meant that the coin's weight, diameter and thickness are exactly to spec. The metal composition is also within spec (as per SPP).
As a side note I did request from PCGS (3 times now) an explanation of how they derived at their conclusion (this was more of a question of curiosity).
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
There comes a time when new technological advances overtakes the old established conventions of standards.
Put another way, these new age fakes will get the OK from ICCS.
I've always been a staunch supporter of ICCS, but this evening, I'm feeling very down about the current situation.
Brian Cornwell (owner of ICCS) has always been a bit stubborn in his ways.
This is usually a good thing for an appraiser/grader as it results in a fairly consistent base over time.
However in this case, it's a negative characteristic and I can only best describe his actions as a 'dinosaur' .
I sincerely hope someone in the industry that is close to him, reads him the riot act and gets him to listen to the up-to-date experts in this matter.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts |
Ah ha, thx for that.
I think many here can agree, after viewing the magnification photos we recognize that those markings would be near impossible to put on a coin post strike. They were struck into the coin. And if ICCS thought the surface was slightly off, as is now clear, even by going back and viewing the non magnified photos, why grade, if not at least write a comment in? I congratulate you for this, good of you to keep people aware, you're a good soul and care about the hobby.
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Valued Member
Canada
395 Posts |
Honestly the nice images by SPP showing what could be laser etching used to make the die really strike me is why PCGS rejected it. PCGS has likely dealt with alot of high end fakes, I always figure there must be alot more US fakes for every 1 Canadian fake just because of the market. With there guarantee I'd feel they'd be much more proactive and knowledgeable against the counterfeits. PCGS will be at the RCNA convention maybe you can see if you can get some answers. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5594 Posts |
Remember that the coin also has an Obv and Rev marriage that was not on an 1891 .. they don't match. Put me in the "I don't believe Brian, he's wrong" camp.
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Valued Member
Canada
288 Posts |
Somehow this doesn't surprise me. That's not to say it isn't ludicrous. It just seems in line with ICCS's reluctance to accept changing times AND their wildly inconsistent grading standards. How could anyone possibly come to the conclusion that the coin is real after reading through this thread, comparing with known die pairs, taking context into consideration (the 1914 mule), and looking at PCGS's opinion. It's absolute madness.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5404 Posts |
We are fast approaching the era of the perfect counterfeit. Probably only a matter of time , what with the advancement of 3 D printing and other tech an old dinosaur like myself and others of my generation have a difficult time understanding! Heck there are those like myself still looking for the rotary dialler and the cord on our mobile phones.  . That said there is one thing about this large Cent that should scare away anyone. You go with your gut instinct. It looks from the picture as almost too perfect, as stated ....." A little off". That should have immediately condemned this coin. I am not going to pummel or praise any grading service here . No one is perfect and all of the services have verifiable stories of screw ups and honest mistakes. That said a little detective work would lead one to not holder this coin. The source .. where it was acquired in the first place. That seller has a record of selling fakes and impossible Die marriages, QV the 1914 ten Cents alluded to in the other thread. SPP analytics , Bosox excellent research on the series also help this piece along as questionable. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Quote: PCGS will be at the RCNA convention maybe you can see if you can get some answers. PCGS (coins) does not attend the RCNA...(I just asked them) The paper entity of PCGS is completely different and has little affiliation with PCGS coins. The striations in the SPP supplied photos should have each and every one of us questioning that cent as to being suspect and probably altered or a complete fake. (and we're not professional graders) A professional grader should be all over that coin in a second. Those photos don't lie..and the dies are wrong..  What other info do they need..? . Edited by DEVLEC
05/12/2017 09:57 am
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
Quote:
I congratulate you for this, good of you to keep people aware, you're a good soul and care about the hobby. I too applaud TheCoinHunter here. I know a lot of coin dealers who would have unloaded it in an ICCS flip in a heartbeat - someone else's problem and an easy buck.  This dealer joins a very small group of dealers that will continue to do business with, and will continue to highly recommend others to do so as well. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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New Member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
It appears that someone is rather eager to get the pictures removed and avoid further discussion. If I am correct, the coin is likely damned!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
Lapidary...You're barking up the wrong tree...There are numerous pictures of this coin within this thread and the coin is being openly discussed.
Edited by TheCoinHunter
05/22/2017 6:21 pm
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
Photos on page 1 are gone - one of the disadvantages of using photobucket to post pictures here.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
I might have moved them from one folder to another. The other pics within this thread are also on PB because of resolution limitations on CC. Either way, the point I was trying to make is that there is nothing being hidden or deleted from this thread to conceal the identity coin.
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
Resolution limits here have improved in the past two years. Have you ever tried the CCF image optimizer? http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/....asp#600,600CCF is probably the number one forum when it comes to Google searches on coins - the longevity of images in posts could go a long way in the future when researching a topic. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Replies: 94 / Views: 19,143 |
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Posted 05/11/2017 9:44 pm
