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Old Silver Bar Sold On Ebay

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Pillar of the Community

United States
1326 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2017  6:32 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add otto to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am so intrigued by this. Would appreciate opinions on what it is.

263021760100

Old-Silver-Bar-Sold-On-Ebay
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2017  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The lack of provenance is scary. The lack of seawater effect means this was almost certainly not a shipwreck recovery.
88g is also extremely light for silver bars in this form with most weighing well over 0.5kg to 1kg or much more.

The facing side shows three tax stamps, or assayer stamps, with partial stamps visible on the sides, meaning this was probably "plata corriente" or cut-down pieces of larger bars which were intended for coining. These stamps are much more ornate than the rather crude stampings seen on Spanish bars of the same era or the tapered VOC "bonk" bars with each end stamped. The fact that the date "1654" is written in Arabic numerals on the two right stamps is also a concern, since almost all silver bars of the same era used Roman numerals exclusively, as in the first stamp.

The leftmost stamp seems to show MDCL (i.e. 1650) at the top but may be cut down from MDCLIV or 1654.

When compared to shipwreck recovery bars from the Capitan & Atocha, as well as non-recovered silver from Germany and England, this one looks far more modern.
There are no fineness stamps that I can see, no assay punches, and no owner marks, the weight and size are not in line with the averages, and there are no tally marks visible.

My inexpert opinion is that this is a modern fantasy bar or slice and not an actual piece of mid 17th c. silver. If you can somehow match the stamps with known and authenticated bars, that would probably help; you could also take it to a museum or university which has a curator or professor who is well versed in mid 17th c. gold and silver ingots, bars, and slices. I would not buy this without an assay report (preferably XRF to look for expected amounts of tin, copper, lead, and occasionally arsenic) and an ironclad return guarantee, and this seller does not offer returns at all.

Edit: This sold for $504.00. 88 grams of silver at .925 is valued currently at around $45. Silver bars of this era usually had fineness around .885 to .920. I'm assuming that he meant "grams" and not "grains", because 88 grains of silver is a measly 5.7 grams.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
06/10/2017 8:53 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1326 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2017  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add otto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Adam. As you can see someone did pay over $500 for it.
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nss-52's Avatar
United States
54283 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2017  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not directly related to the authenticity of the bar, but this seller has three negatives which accuse the seller of shill bidding (and name the ID).

The bidder named has 627 feedback.
This silver bar has a bidder with a scrambled name containing the letters of the ID named and a feedback score of (627).

To me, this means they shill bid on this silver bar as well.

Note: the winning bidder is not the same bidder that bid $99, and the winning bid came in after the supposed shill bidder's bids.

The seller's location is Funcal, Portugal. Funcal is a city on a Portuguese island named Maderia.

The supposed shill bidder is registered as being from Maderia, Portugal.
Edited by nss-52
06/10/2017 9:05 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1326 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2017  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add otto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
seller has three negatives


I have found this seller to be suspicious. He often sells lots of larger silver coins that are always in beautiful condition, with quite a few repeats of certain types. It seems a little off. I also noticed the bidding pattern you refer to.
Edited by otto
06/10/2017 9:07 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts
 Posted 06/12/2017  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fake stamped bars/ingots seems to be a fun game out of the Iberian peninsula the last few years...
Pillar of the Community
United States
541 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2017  1:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add retiredkper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
About 35-40 years ago a bunch of similar looking bars came up for sale reportedly from Brazil.
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Giovanni Miceli Puperi's Avatar
Brazil
67 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2018  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Giovanni Miceli Puperi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Old-Silver-Bar-Sold-On-Ebay

Old-Silver-Bar-Sold-On-Ebay

Old-Silver-Bar-Sold-On-Ebay

Old-Silver-Bar-Sold-On-Ebay
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