| Author |
 Replies: 182 / Views: 23,217 |
|
|
|
Valued Member
United States
414 Posts |
For whatever it's worth I'll give my 2 cents...
I spent a good amount of time looking over the HD pictures of your half on Heritage and comparing to multiple samples of other '32 halves in higher grades as well as other AU samples. I have come to the opinion that the folks at ANACS have completely under-graded your coin. Though your coin exhibits a lot of flatness on the high points (hair, stars, denticles, eagle's head, eagle's talons, and the leaves on the reverse), I am not entirely convinced it's due to circulation. All the other AU samples I've seen, exhibit said flatness much more visibly in tandem with a multitude of easily visible dings/bag marks, scuffs, etc on the devices as well as the fields. Your coin exhibits virtually none of this. Aside from very minor scuffs that you really have to focus on to see, the fields are smooth as a baby's butt. The devices on your coin exhibit some bag marks (the one on the back top portion of the cap is the one most visible to my eyes) but they are minimal. I'd think that the amount of circulation necessary to generate the kind of flatness your coin exhibits would create many more bag marks. Since your coin is virtually clean, I'm inclined to believe that your coin's flatness is caused by strike rather than circulation.
I'd grade your coin in the MS range without much hesitation. The only caveat here is that my opinion is based on two pictures of the coin on Heritage's website. What I'm not sure about is if the absence of scuffs on your coin is due to photography magic or if your coin is really as clean as it appears. Some cleaner close ups would help. If your coin is as clean as it appears, I'd crack this slab without a second thought and re-submit it. Re-submitting for a crossover I feel would create bias. Any chance this coin could wind up a details coin (artificial toning/non market acceptable toning, or anything else)? I feel that's the only real risk here as I HIGHLY doubt it grades lower than AU55. Separately, a PCGS or NGC slab is much more desirable than ANACS.
I'm in no way an expert and this is just my opinion based on the images available. Seeing a coin in hand and seeing a coin on screen are two very different things but in this case I think you have a worthy gamble.
|
|
Moderator
 United States
188770 Posts |
Quote:
In hand pics. Beautiful lady!  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts |
Hi, Mike. Maybe this would go better in the grading section but here it is. I made up this pic showing a side-by-side of two 1832 BHs, one is a PCGS MS62 and the other is your ANACS-55. Flattening is clear on the curls and the top of the cap. Sometimes, the curls can be a weak strike, although this coin seems very well struck. In any case, wear is minor. Rev is even less. Why it's not a 58 now is a mystery to me.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts |
Just my 2 cents on what to do next but I would seriously consider resubmitting this coin back to Anacs for an upgrade. My reasons-
-Anacs is cheaper, no club to join
-Not likely they'll declare the coin AT'ed or cleaned
-They'll only remove it from the holder if it will upgrade (you can ask them this to verify beforehand)
-Give Anacs a chance to fix their undergrade.
With PCGS, keep these things in mind-
-You have to join their club which isn't cheap
-You can not request an upgrade. You can only request an even crossover. Any upgrade is at their discretion
-Psychologically, it is a real longshot that PCGS would upgrade any ANACS coin, IMO
-In addition to the club fee, there is a submission fee, and a special fee for crossovers; overall, price is about $70 per coin (inc shipping), not inc the club fee
-PCGS is very fussy at times and may declare your coin polished or AT'ed or something
There's no shame in having an ANACS-58. At auction, people tend to look, not just at the holder, but at the aspects of the coin. Your coin will always rate high.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
If the grade doesn't fit, you must resubmit!  Seriously though, that coin would be worth more in PCGS plastic even if it crossed at the same grade, and a premium on top with a green bean. Shame JA won't sticker anacs slabs, this one might have gotten a gold. Regardless of what you decide, you have a very beautiful coin!  Edited by hadleydog
11/19/2017 05:43 am
|
|
Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Anyone care to factor the cachet of an OG ANACS holder? This coin is plainly proof of how conservatively they graded back in the day, and likely one which has not been seen on the block before. It only appears this once in Heritage's archives.
There is a reason why Mike had to make it one of only 7 in this grade which have ever sold for more than $900. And at least three of that seven were the R.4 O-114, which trades at a major premium in high grade. He wasn't the only bidder who recognized the quality of the coin, and didn't care about the slab. This is the highest price on record for an ANACS AU-55, by a wide margin, because it deserves to be.
Don't touch it.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
414 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
5672 Posts |
I don't think there is any downside to sending it to PCGS or NGC. It's got to be an AU-58 at a minimum, and there's virtually no risk that anyone could call this AT. Either service will break it out of the slab for you, as a crossover at PCGS, or as a raw coin at NGC. It might look nice with the white NGC background since you already have some NGC holders, but that's just personal preference.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
414 Posts |
 Unless you screw up the coin while cracking it open or it gets lost, I don't see any risk by sending this to either PCGS or NGC, only upside. This is an MS coin, plain and simple. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Sending it back to ANACS would be being penny smart and dollar dumb. Definitely don't send it back to them. He would be costing himself far more than the 5-10 dollars on grading fees he would save putting it into their new holder. There's only two things that should be done with this one. The first option would be just to leave it as it is. If it were my coin this would not be my preferred option for a few reasons. Yes some people like the old white ANACS holders but the mania isn't like some of the early PCGS/NGC slabs and in this case it's a higher serial number and not one of the earliest versions. An upgraded PCGS especially with a CAC or an MS coin should do better than that holder, but if it stays in an ANACS slab it should be that white one. The other option is to send it to PCGS which is my preferred method if it were mine. I agree this coin has a good shot of going MS or at the very least a 58 and looks like it has a strong shot at getting a CAC in either grade. Even as a 58 it would still look undergraded like it has upgrade potential. The white holders aren't to hard to crack out work on the top of the slab and you'll be away from the coin and it should be fine. If you're really worried about cracking it yourself call PCGS, there have been times before where you could send a slab and request they remove the coin and grade it raw with the submission. If they don't do that anymore and you wanted to make sure you never had to remove the coin yourself you can do a cross over then send it back for a regrade. They regrade will be graded raw. I'd send that baby to CAC after it's switched over too. Quote:
Anyone care to factor the cachet of an OG ANACS holder? I don't think it was that high in this case. If it was a six digit or an early ANA version of it maybe, but with this coin with the color and beauty and being such an obvious upgrade candidate I'm having a hard time attributing any of the strong price to the holder. Edited by basebal21
11/19/2017 2:22 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts |
Quote:Ron, I don't think it's as clear cut as that. By your logic these coins are heavily over graded as there is ample flatness on the cap and curls: 1. https://coins.ha.com/itm/bust-half-...ption-0715152. https://coins.ha.com/itm/bust-half-...ption-0715153. https://coins.ha.com/itm/bust-half-...ption-071515 Those are some beautiful coins, cableguy. I saw flatness on the cap on only the first one and all 3 coins did not show flattened curls, nor any rub on the eagle's claws or left wing. Without any other wear, one bit that's flattened would likely be taken as a poor strike. The coin in question here has a flattened cap and 4 curls that I counted, as well as some rub on the reverse. As far as submitting to PCGS, I would think twice. There's the club fee $69, $10 submission fee, about $12 guarantee submission fee (only for crossovers), $31 shipping, and finally, the actual cost of the grading, $32. After laying out all this dough, they can simply say no. Of course, it's Mike's call but I just thought I'd give a head's up. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
As far as submitting to PCGS, I would think twice. There's the club fee $69, There's no club fee. He would get the membership with the 8 submission vouchers which would save him money on his submission. Even if he paid every fee you listed he would almost be assured to net far more at auction with it in a PCGS slab than a new ANACS 58 slab. Edited by basebal21
11/19/2017 4:58 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
3479 Posts |
Thanks for the spirited debate everyone! I cracked it out and it was effortless and smooth. Just a few firm taps of a hammer on each side and it came apart with no damage to the holder. I would never send this back into ANACS. So the only question is buy a NGC or PCGS membership. Like I said before, I have 7 coins that need to be graded. 5 of which are capped bust halves. Fellow members have warned against sending CBH's to PCGS. It's my understanding that after years of overgrading PCGS has tightened their standards and overcorrected the issue. On another note here are a few toners in other slaps that I missed out on due to bidding wars. Considering what these coins sold for, I feel I got this one cheap. I was the underbidder on both. Take a look at the 32 on the second link and tell me how that one graded au-58.  https://coins.ha.com/itm/bust-half-...Lots-101116# https://coins.ha.com/itm/bust-half-...Lots-101116#   Edited by MikeF
11/19/2017 6:35 pm
|
|
Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Well, all I can do is wish you luck and hope the vagaries of the TPG's on surface preservation don't bite and the additional sunk cost you're about to incur doesn't put you under water. You're committed now. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
You don't need to buy a membership. If you're an ANA member, you can submit directly to NGC. Otherwise, most LCSs offer submission services for little if any upcharge. |
| |
Replies: 182 / Views: 23,217 |
First Page
Previous Page
Posted 11/19/2017 12:57 am
