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Seated Dollar: MS Or AU

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ArrowsAndRays's Avatar
United States
1659 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2018  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ArrowsAndRays to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Quote:
Also GC's pics are a more accurate representation of what a coin looks like.



Quote:
Stacks doctors their photos and they are very good at it.


Is it Opposites Day?
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MikeF's Avatar
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2018  3:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is it Opposites Day?


That's not very helpful Arrows and Rays. I would like to hear your thoughts on why you disagree.
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MikeF's Avatar
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2018  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And the grade:


Seated-Dollar:-MS-Or-AU

And I didn't forget about you Stacks loyalists. Here is Stacks picture:

Seated-Dollar:-MS-Or-AU
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merclover's Avatar
United States
10635 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2018  11:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd break it out of the holder and resubmit it to see if they would get it right the second time around.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188770 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2018  11:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'd break it out of the holder and resubmit it to see if they would get it right the second time around.
Break it out and put it in my 7070.

(A little pricey for me though!)
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Earle42's Avatar
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2018  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So all the marks that look like cleaning are what?
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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chesterb's Avatar
United States
1261 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2018  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chesterb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd take the Stacks coin but not the one from GC!
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MikeF's Avatar
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2018  10:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'd take the Stacks coin but not the one from GC!


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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2018  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
basebal21 - Tell us more why you disagree.


Sure.

As far as the Stacks doctoring photos statement, it's just flat out wrong. Stacks nor do any of the three elite auction houses (Heritage, Legend, Stacks) doctor photos. David Lawrence doesn't doctor photos either but they do use scans for lower value things. None of the reputable places actually doctor photos.

Doctoring photos means that someone is taking images then editing them to remove flaws to try and sell the item for more. Really doctored pictures would be considered fraud. That just simple does not happen.

Accuracy of images and doctoring photos are two completely different things. As far as which images are more accurate, there is SOOOOO much light being blasted on those GC images that it is almost impossible for it to be more accurate. I can't think of a single environment where someone would be looking at it in hand with that much light hitting it unless you were laying on a bed of mirrors on a sunny day.

That set up would have produced a nice image for a toned Morgan or ASE, but to me a lot of their images are very over lit. That seems to be a theme with a lot of their images in recent history and from selling with them in the past I know I have been less than pleased with the images on more than one occassion. I had thought their pictures were improving until a while ago where the lighting appears to have been cranked up and never adjusted for non toners.

Which brings us to the other point about accuracy. Every house has a limited amount of time to image things before they're losing money with a backlog trying to get it right. Legend probably gets the best results being the boutique having fewer things to deal with. Stacks and Heritage and many of the others take the time to write out descriptions of their listings and generally make an effort to get things accurate. Most of their consignors have weight and are bigger fish so they have to keep up a higher level of service for those types of clients. The delay between listing and auction time also gives those consignors the ability to raise a fit if they think a picture needs to be redone.
Edited by basebal21
02/02/2018 10:23 pm
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MikeF's Avatar
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2018  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So all the marks that look like cleaning are what?


Without a doubt this coin has been dipped. It was deemed market acceptable by PCGS. That's a whole other can of worms. That wasn't what this post was about.

I was trying to show how soft strikes can lead us to incorrect grading conclusions. 72's suffer from these strike issues as well as others within the series. I'm writing a tutorial about Seated dollars and why it's important to work with a series specialist when pursuing the series.
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MikeF's Avatar
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2018  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Sure.

As far as the Stacks doctoring photos statement, it's just flat out wrong. Stacks nor do any of the three elite auction houses (Heritage, Legend, Stacks) doctor photos. David Lawrence doesn't doctor photos either but they do use scans for lower value things. None of the reputable places actually doctor photos.

Doctoring photos means that someone is taking images then editing them to remove flaws to try and sell the item for more. Really doctored pictures would be considered fraud. That just simple does not happen.

Accuracy of images and doctoring photos are two completely different things. As far as which images are more accurate, there is SOOOOO much light being blasted on those GC images that it is almost impossible for it to be more accurate. I can't think of a single environment where someone would be looking at it in hand with that much light hitting it unless you were laying on a bed of mirrors on a sunny day.

That set up would have produced a nice image for a toned Morgan or ASE, but to me a lot of their images are very over lit. That seems to be a theme with a lot of their images in recent history and from selling with them in the past I know I have been less than pleased with the images on more than one occassion. I had thought their pictures were improving until a while ago where the lighting appears to have been cranked up and never adjusted for non toners.

Which brings us to the other point about accuracy. Every house has a limited amount of time to image things before they're losing money with a backlog trying to get it right. Legend probably gets the best results being the boutique having fewer things to deal with. Stacks and Heritage and many of the others take the time to write out descriptions of their listings and generally make an effort to get things accurate. Most of their consignors have weight and are bigger fish so they have to keep up a higher level of service for those types of clients. The delay between listing and auction time also gives those consignors the ability to raise a fit if they think a picture needs to be redone.


Welcome back Baseball and thanks for the very helpful response!
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MikeF's Avatar
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2018  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Baseball, here are the pictures of that 59-O I purchased from stacks that fellow members thought was an MS coin.

Seated-Dollar:-MS-Or-AU
Seated-Dollar:-MS-Or-AU



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Everest's Avatar
Taiwan
606 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2018  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Everest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
basebal21: Always look forward to your educational and informative posts. One good reference I have
found very useful is Mark Goodmans Numismatic Photography. This publication has certainly helped me
understand the nuances of taking quality photographs.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2018  11:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When a coin comes back from a TPGrader with a disappointing grade result, there is always a temptation to resubmit to another TPgrader. Sometimes, the result is a happier one, if re submitted, sometimes it is not.

If an initial submission comes back with a result that makes the owner happy, the coin is never resubmitted.


The point of these two statements is that a TPGrader is occasionally slightly wrong.
Sometimes that is corrected, sometimes it is not.

That does not rule Coinfrog completely out of this discussion.
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Optimist-numismatist's Avatar
Canada
683 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2018  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Optimist-numismatist to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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