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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
526 Posts |
Recently found in a job lot. Presuming from the gold colour it will be brass. Is it worth keeping in this condition?  Edited by Bas S Warwick
05/05/2018 10:00 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7960 Posts |
Edited by tdziemia
05/05/2018 10:52 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
695 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 New Zealand
526 Posts |
tdziemia - Thanks for the reply and valuable information.
Agree, coin looks like 2 Sols but diameter on 2 Sols is stated on Numisma as 36mm Metz mint (or 34mm from Strasbourg mint). and I've just checked the diameter of my coin and its 31mm which only corresponds more with a 12 Deniers, although other factors for 12D are wrong. ie copper, date position, and mint SB Strasbourg. Coin colour is quite golden so I feel its not copper. Weight is just under 24 grams. Numismatics Paris has 2 Sol as bell metal and 34 mm - could there be that much loss of diameter?)
I would appreciate your further thoughts?
aiglet7 - good point, thanks for your reply. A coin is more than metal, and that historical account of his execution was quite amazing.
Edited by Bas S Warwick
05/05/2018 8:46 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5177 Posts |
Looking at Numista, it's more likely to be a 2 sols. The size doesn't really fit either, and their French listings tend to be fairly complete. And of course the date is in the wrong place for a 12 deniers.
IIRC, those coins were frequently made undersized as the mints ran out of anything remotely resembling good copper.
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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
526 Posts |
january1may - many thanks for your input. Do you know if bronze (bell metal) was used in place of copper during shortages. This coin does not look like copper - much more golden (brassy) than in the image. Numista does not mention bronze in 1793. However, the image on Numista also does not look like copper https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3657.html |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
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I guessed 2 sols because it looks like you have the AA mint (Metz) and it appears that the 6 denier coin was not minted there in 1793. As the date location doesn't work for 12 deniers, that leads to 2 sols, which was minted in Metz in 1793. I am not an expert on the coinage of that time and place (or hardly any other for that matter!). But if we look at Numista, NGC and COin Archives, there is a lot of variation of weight, color and diameter for this type. Numista says copper. NGC says bronze. There are also references to bell metal for this period, and it is clear from the Numista pictures, and from Coin Archives (and a 12 D piece I used to own) that these were also minted in a type of metal that gives a blackish patina with yellowish high spots, unlike any bronze or copper coin I have seen from 200 years ago. Here is a 1792 2 sols from Metz that measured 33 mm, and is cited as bronze (and the color fits). https://www.coinarchives.com/d92e71...age00997.jpg Yours is still smaller than any other we have seen, but I think it's still the best answer. Edited by tdziemia
05/06/2018 09:18 am
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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
526 Posts |
Thanks tdziemia - appreciate your reply, - all factors point to 2 Sols (other than diameter variation).
As a matter of interest I also noticed the mention of 'clock metal' somewhere as I researched. Perhaps that's just another name for brass
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
This will give you an idea of the variability in the metal  They range from ruddy copper to tan to greyish black. The planchets are approximately round, often with major surface flaws and cracks. The coins are struck approximately on the planchets. They're better than Spanish cobs but not by much. Bells are not a standardized coin metal. "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
05/06/2018 6:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7960 Posts |
Quote:
As a matter of interest I also noticed the mention of 'clock metal' somewhere as I researched. Perhaps that's just another name for brass Cloche is bell. Horloge is clock. It's back to remedial French for you! |
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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
526 Posts |
merci beaucoup
French was always a problem for me
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Replies: 10 / Views: 2,635 |
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Posted 05/05/2018 2:03 pm
