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 Replies: 275 / Views: 26,364 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
552 Posts |
In the interests of clarity and coming to some kind of consensus (unless there is an authority in error coins that covers both Australia and the USA), take a look at the following error coin  I've called it a Helmet CudI've classified a ' Cud' error as a piece of metal that becomes part of a coin during the minting process that should not be there and is not part of the original design of the coin In the opinion of our American colleagues, would you a) Call this an error?
b) If yes how would you classify error?
c) What would you call/name this error?
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Valued Member
Australia
271 Posts |
I don't understand how it can be referenced to as a "chip". If you were in possession of the small piece of die that broke away, I would happily call that a "die chip". But the result of the process needs an acceptable, universal, and agreeable name.
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Pillar of the Community
5464 Posts |
So I guess we need to show you published reference books, manuals and journals by numismatic professional, documenting the terms, phrases, definitions, terminology, explanations and causes of these anomalies.
Then you show us published reference books, manuals and journals by numismatic professional, documenting the terms, phrases, definitions, terminology, explanations and causes of these anomalies.
Then we'll compare notes.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1333 Posts |
Mr cruise, how rare are the helmet Cuds? whats the percentage estimate you would give to find one in a bunch of those coins? |
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Rest in Peace
United States
1559 Posts |
Quote:
So I guess we need to show you published reference books, manuals and journals by numismatic professional, documenting the terms, phrases, definitions, terminology, explanations and causes of these anomalies.
Then you show us published reference books, manuals and journals by numismatic professional, documenting the terms, phrases, definitions, terminology, explanations and causes of these anomalies.
Then we'll compare notes.   |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1333 Posts |
It a Show down, what about the time? :D
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
552 Posts |
USSID18 has made a valid suggestion and probably the best course of action moving forward
From the Australian perspective I don't actually recall any definitive guide to error coins especially decimal era error coins - perhaps other Australian members can chip in here and provide their feedback if they do know of some published work out there. The terms I've used are nomenclature used by Australian error coin enthusiasts for years. Thus the endeavour to source material defining error coin definitions will take some time
I would be interested nonetheless in what American material there is out there
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Rest in Peace
United States
1559 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
5464 Posts |
Edited by USSID18
06/17/2019 11:15 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1333 Posts |
i don't really care, but many if not all of our leading auction and coin shop all refer to coins with so chips as Cud, so you can slap people blue here, but if they are still going to call a rabbit ear Cud a Cud and not a chip then can't do much. With Cud < die break, there is a distinction for that one |
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Rest in Peace
United States
1559 Posts |
I don't really care either but it appears that Australia is the only country that doesn't care about the differences.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
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USSID18 has made a valid suggestion and probably the best course of action moving forward I agree. People use many different to names for types of errors before they learn the appropriate terms. Even just learning the difference between an error and a variety is a major stumbling block. That's why consistent resources need to be available and cited to create that clarity. Quote:
From the Australian perspective I don't actually recall any definitive guide to error coins especially decimal era error coins - perhaps other Australian members can chip in here and provide their feedback if they do know of some published work out there. I don't think it matters whether it is decimal or pre-decimal. The minting process is the same and produces the same cornucopia of errors as any die-struck coins, especially when using automatic presses. If anyone knows of any works regarding Australian error terminology, I would welcome it. I suppose the RAM and Perth Mint would be the first places to look. Quote:
The terms I've used are nomenclature used by Australian error coin enthusiasts for years. Thus the endeavour to source material defining error coin definitions will take some time It's worth finding, though. Quote:
I would be interested nonetheless in what American material there is out there One important reference not linked to is this: http://www.error-ref.com/Regarding die errors, this is the appropriate page: http://www.error-ref.com/part_iv__die_errors/And more specifically concerning die breaks (chips, Cuds, etc.), this page: http://www.error-ref.com/die-breaks/Quote:...so you can slap people blue here, but if they are still going to call a rabbit ear Cud a Cud and not a chip then can't do much. @ryurazu Maybe not there, but on this site I think it better to get our terminology together. Remember, this site has members from all over the world, not just a couple countries. The more confusion that is removed, the better. This is an international numismatic community and to be split so plainly on a simple matter like this seems archaic. In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
06/18/2019 12:51 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
Quote:
In the opinion of our American colleagues, would you
a) Call this an error?
b) If yes how would you classify error?
c) What would you call/name this error? Personally, I would ask for a closeup. In this case, I assume you are pointing out the extra glint of light on top of the soldier's helmet. At most: a) Yes b) Die error c) Die chip (less than 4mm squared) Those are assumptions, however, based on the pic available. I like the coin. In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1333 Posts |
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Valued Member
Australia
271 Posts |
Quote:Mr cruise, how rare are the helmet Cuds? whats the percentage estimate you would give to find one in a bunch of those coins? I'd like to chip in here, if you'll excuse the pun! I have only found one example .......but I have 15 priest's robe Cuds (I don't think anyone would understand if I called it a priest's robe chip!), and last week I found 3 robe Cuds from 600 coins. So, I call it a Cud, because my intended audience has this expectation. I am aware that America has some famous error coins. Would your intended audience understand your famous find if all of the sudden you switched to correct terminology, instead of calling it by the accepted name? It's a little more complex than correct terminology, I think the important thing is being able to communicate your find to your intended audience, effectively. And I doubt that anyone outside of Australia is interested, apart from the curiosity, in my finds. |
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Replies: 275 / Views: 26,364 |
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Posted 06/17/2019 04:54 am
True I can understand the reason for the confusion but I still can't say I want to change or care to change when I refer to Australian coins, I might do so when referring to other coins. I mean I don't expect American to refer to international standards just because they are in a international setting and yes I understand this is more so a American forum and that this forum is setup and maintain by you guys but termology is always going to be different. 
