1877 A Germany - Prussia Gold 5 Mark

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Author	Replies: 8 / Views: 4,302
Jadey Pillar of the Community United States 900 Posts	Posted 02/03/2019 3:02 pm Opinions requested Report this Post to the Staff

tdziemia Pillar of the Community United States 7969 Posts	Posted 02/03/2019 4:04 pm I am not familiar with this type, and maybe it's the lighting, but something looks strange with that portrait (in particular, the hair...lower photo is an MS-63 of same date and mint)? Edited by tdziemia 02/03/2019 4:19 pm Report this Post to the Staff
tdziemia Pillar of the Community United States 7969 Posts	Posted 02/03/2019 4:29 pm The closer I look, the more differences I see (number of beads/dots between the N in PREUSSEN and W in WILHELM is quite different, nostril is different ... etc.) Edited by tdziemia 02/03/2019 4:32 pm Report this Post to the Staff
sel_69l Bedrock of the Community Australia 21788 Posts	Posted 02/03/2019 5:11 pm Interesting. When there are varieties, it is usually in the lettering-: lettering shapes, placement, mint, marks etc. The main head or bust details are in the master die, and those details are hubbed to all other lower generation relief and incuse working dies. Varieties are almost always derived in the lower generation dies. In this case, the possibility has to be considered that two or more master dies may have (or still do), exist. This coin looks way too good to be a counterfeit or a fake. Report this Post to the Staff
tdziemia Pillar of the Community United States 7969 Posts	Posted 02/03/2019 6:02 pm I always learn about the coinmaking process from your posts. Thank you! Before posting my earlier comment, I looked over the 10 examples of this coin on CoinArchives. Going from top to bottom of the coin, here are the differences I see (listing my observations on the other 10 examples first, then the OP coin) 1. hairline meets forehead below the I in KAISER, not the A 2. horizontal wrinkles in forehead, even in worn examples 3. no deep furrow in hairlines left of ear; no deep notch at back of hair at same level as top of ear 4. no deep groove in rim of right nostril 5. 7 beads between G in KONIG AND P in PREUSSEN, not 5-6 6. sideburns are never below ear 7. 13 beads between N in PREUSSEN and W in WILHELM, not 10 There were proofs minted of this coin. ANother thought I had is that the proof dies were different (but this doesn't square with my hunches about the sensibilities of a Prussian engraver ) Edited by tdziemia 02/03/2019 6:10 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Alexthegreat Valued Member Germany 157 Posts	Posted 02/03/2019 8:58 pm German Gold coins are my favorite subject. There is an estimation that 80% of all 5 Mark Gold coins are fake. They where only made for 2 years and they were set out of circulation in 1900. So the majority was meltet during the german Kaiserreich. This one is a very bad restrike. German collecters call the eagle ''boiling hen''. But there is a good message: Probably it is made out of 900er gold :-) Report this Post to the Staff
Jadey Pillar of the Community United States 900 Posts	Posted 02/04/2019 06:56 am @tdziemia You have a very good eye for this sort of comparison. I agree, looking at other pictures, I could not find anything similar, so it is likely a forgery. The weight is the correct 2 grams, but the diameter is 17.3 mm vs the specified 16mm on numista. I bought a second coin as well, which has the same specifications, so it is likely counterfeit as well. @AlextheGreat I'm shocked by the 80% number ... that's scary. Are you saying that you recognize the eagle as being a known counterfeit "boiled hen" design? What makes you suspect it is still gold? Here is a picture of the second one. The eagle is noticeably different on the second one. Report this Post to the Staff
tdziemia Pillar of the Community United States 7969 Posts	Posted 02/04/2019 08:13 am Possible obv die match to this one (see die crack left of mint mark running up onto neck), so assuming it's authentic, so is yours https://www.coinarchives.com/w/resu...&results=100 (Edit: Looking more closely, maybe not a die match, but I see nothing suspicious with this one based on photos...also looks faithful to the image on NGC). Edited by tdziemia 02/04/2019 08:41 am Report this Post to the Staff
IndianGoldEagle Bedrock of the Community United States 36906 Posts	Posted 02/04/2019 6:34 pm Very nice, MS-65. Report this Post to the Staff
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