Ngc, You Went Too Far. - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 9 / Views: 2,254
Loruca Valued Member Canada 242 Posts	Posted 03/05/2019 12:18 am Rant Warning! I appreciate the fact that the big grading companies are in fact for-profit businesses. I understand that they want to grade anything and everything. But this, this is plain old over the line. To start, I'm an Italian coin collector, have been doing so more than half of my life now. Each country has it's omnipresent fake, that one pseudo-coin that never existed, but that somehow, someone decided was worth copying and distributing. In the Usa, it's the "Indian head dollar" or similar pieces. Well for Italians, it's a medal, sporting the reverse of the 1927-8 20 lira coin, and on the obverse instead of VEIII's bust, a helmeted bust of Mussolini surrounded by the Roman numerals MCMXLIII. The coin is a joke, made in the 70's by pro-fascist groups in northern Italy. Well, Krause, and NGC put the dunce cap on, and pulled it over their own eyes. Krause catalogued it with an X number, fair enough, that's a legitimate place for it, like other fantasy tokens. NGC though, certified one. And oh did they goof. here it is in short: The slab is misleading, to an unknowledgeable collector, the reference to Italy and the supposed face value along with a date would immediately suggest this to be a pattern, or real coin of some type. If this wasn't enough, the cherry to top it off is that NGC census has it listed with all the legitimate coins of VEIII's reign! https://www.NGCcoin.com/details-cen...0l/?c=243054 Sadly, this is being taken advantage of at this very moment by what I can only describe as a rather unscrupulous ebay seller who has listed this certified piece for an astounding 4000 dollars, a price only supported by the NGC grading, which in fact he clearly states, adding that "it is amongst the rarest issues of the kingdom of Italy" when similar fantasy issues, which are still being made in China I should add, sell for less than a dollar a piece across the internet. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1943-Dated...323623729339 I have written to NGC, but am afraid I shouldn't be expecting a reply... Thoughts? Report this Post to the Staff

John1 Moderator United States 56855 Posts	Posted 03/05/2019 04:45 am Let us know what NGC says. John1 Report this Post to the Staff
sel_69l Bedrock of the Community Australia 21786 Posts	Posted 03/05/2019 05:58 am A justified rant in this case. Although impassioned, I think you are right. The coin you mentioned, is a rather dodgy fantasy 'non coin', and the first minor step, *with NCG's actions helping*, towards dishonesty. I am not a great fan of slabs, although in some very different cases, I have suggested on various threads, that some coins should be slabbed, but that is usually for verification purposes only, to throw out doubtful fake coins. I prefer to grade my own coins. I have myself to blame, if I get it wrong. Report this Post to the Staff
oriole Pillar of the Community Canada 5239 Posts	Posted 03/05/2019 07:29 am @Loruca, I have one of those! However, I knew that it was a fantasy and did not pay much. It is still an interesting curiosity. Report this Post to the Staff
basebal21 Bedrock of the Community 13014 Posts	Posted 03/05/2019 7:32 pm Generally once it is in Krause or another known reference guide the TPGs will grade it. If you notice the label says "1943 Dated" instead of just 1943 so they were showing that it is different. Report this Post to the Staff
Loruca Valued Member Canada 242 Posts	Posted 03/05/2019 10:52 pm And that I can accept, After all, even fakes can be collectible, Sadly, what has been graded here is a fake of a fantasy! The piece reported with the X number is a solid silver medal, issued in the 70's this is instead silver-plate on bronze. I would conclude however, that the way this piece is presented by NGC in its capsule is misleading, highly so, reporting it as "Italy" puts it on par with official issues, and the "dated" mention is in relation to the fact this fantasy piece bears a total of 3 different dates! Let alone the fact that in the NGC census it falls with all the other official Italian pieces! Overall, I expect more from NGC given their reputation. Report this Post to the Staff
basebal21 Bedrock of the Community 13014 Posts	Posted 03/06/2019 02:22 am Could NGC of labeled it better, very likely. By no means do I usually defend them, but they did point it out in their own way and the reference guide may be more to blame overall. Report this Post to the Staff
Alpha2814 Pillar of the Community United States 2023 Posts	Posted 03/06/2019 02:38 am It's far from perfect, I agree. An educated collector will know what they're looking at, but NGC certainly isn't helping. NGC could take note of what ANACS does with the Carr fantasy overstrikes, by labeling them explicitly as tokens. PCGS has similar organizational issues on their site -- Innovation dollars listed among commemoratives, 2019 Pandas appearing in population charts but not listed in the current set registries, just off the top of my head. NGC is not alone in this area. But maintaining the database is time-consuming with relatively little reward for the effort, beyond their own integrity. That's worth something but I can see it hard to justify financially. All we can really do is can encourage them to do better. Report this Post to the Staff
Loruca Valued Member Canada 242 Posts	Posted 03/06/2019 3:13 pm Credit to where credit is due, I have already received a reply from NGC's Customer service, "Thank you for your email. We will change the description to make it more clear that this coin is not an official mint issue, and we appreciate his concern and constructive criticism" Short, but to the point. I will look forwards to checking if the information is updated soon! I was positively impressed by the rapidity, and honesty of this answer. Report this Post to the Staff
Alpha2814 Pillar of the Community United States 2023 Posts	Posted 03/06/2019 3:33 pm Wow, that's a much better response than I was expecting. Points to you for taking care of that! Report this Post to the Staff
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