How Far Back Can We Go? Sixth Edition! Ended At 1380 Waiting On 1379

Zeno -extended search- MAMLUK Date min 818 -Date max 818
..a matching AH818 coin on Zeno has a reference number Balog N/5. I don't think the sellers reference of 'left hand coin 4-5 o'clock' is helpful. Can any of the experts weigh in?

@J1M, thanks for that information.....the plot thickens!

edit: I posed the question on Zeno. Alex responded that it is 818

https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=326590

Album 992 Balog N5

So who has 1414AD?

Onward! (I've now got a 1411, but nothing between).

I do have a 1414 coin (and a 1413, for later). But it requires a bit of argumentation to make it 1414.

The issue is that the royal ordonnance specifying the new type of gros, with lower silver content than the previous one, was issued Nov 3, 1413, so in reference works this coin is dated 1413 (and Numista lists it as 1413-1414). However, that date does not mean that minting began on the morning of Nov 4. First, an order to manufacture coins must be issued. In the case of Rouen, which is the mint for my coin, that order was issued Dec 8, 1413. That was the day the king (or perhaps his secretary) dictated the order to the royal scribe. That hand written order had to be copied, by hand, for all who needed it. Maybe that takes just one day, so we have Dec 9. Rouen is about 140 km from Paris, where the king sits. The order has to be sent by use of a horseman, who in wintertime can not be expected to travel more than 30 km a day, so the trip to Rouen takes five days. The mint master in Rouen will in best case receive the order Dec 14 and act on it Dec 15. Removing at least two Sundays, it is only 7 work days left until Christmas Eve, which marks the start of the Twelve Days of Christmas, during which no work is performed by any good men.

There is no way that dies will be made ready and production started in such a short time. So under all reasonable assumptions, minting of these coins can start earliest Jan 1414! Add to that, that this is a single issue (no more manufacturing orders issued), which means that when the requested number of coins have been minted, no more are made. And starting in January, that end point will surely happen during 1414. (Numista even states demonetization to take place in June 1414.)

For this to work, we have to ignore that according to French custom at this time, the year began at Easter, so in their view, 1413 lasted until April 1414 in a modern calendar . . . But I think we should take an external view, since we are neither in France (most of us) nor in Medieval times (none of us), and use the modern reckoning.

France 1414, gros "aux lis sous une couronne", Rouen. Duplessy 384A.

Thank you for that explanation. It is very interesting!

J1M seems to agree it works for 1414. So if there are no objections, we can move on to 1413!

I will wait until I get at least one more affirmation to change the title.

Okay then!

We Need - 1413 C. E. (A. H. 816) -

If struck in Paris, there is no horseman riding to Rouen with a copy of the ordonance.


I think my coin of 1422 (Holland) might have been a similar instance. Mostly it is cited as "emission of 1422," but j1m found a respected Dutch seller who had it as 1423. Probably a dive in to van der Chijs would reveal the date of the ordonance.

Here is my 1413 coin. No doubts here, a single issue beginning June 1413, ending November same year, when it was replaced by my and Spence's 1413-1414 coin.

France 1413, gros "aux lis", Rouen. Duplessy 381.