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Vesparian Judea Capta Denarius. 3.5g Could This Be Real?

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New Member

United States
47 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2022  5:02 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Coinerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I found this coin. It is 18mm large. Weighs 3.5ish grams (my scale only goes to tenths. From my research looks like the coin "Jewess Bound by Palm". How do I go about finding if this is real of fake? I know chances are VERY rare it is real but would love to find out
Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
Pillar of the Community
United States
2213 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2022  9:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How did you find it? It's corroded which means it was in the ground for a period of time or it could be a modern cast fake. There are known fakes of this Vespasian denarius type. Better pics would be needed, clear, of the whole coin.

Someone with more knowledge than I on CCF might offer their opinion.

You could check the nearest coin club, perhaps there's an ancient coin collector that could help. There aren't many coin stores that sell ancient coins or have someone work there who is experienced with ancient coins.

There are some online sites that may help. There's Forum Ancient Coins. You can post good pics there and get opinions. An online dealers site is Vcoins. Dealers there may help you.

The palm tree type is scarcer than the military trophy variety.

Here's mine. It's very worn, obviously circulated for quite a while.


Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
Edited by livingwater
08/27/2022 10:12 pm
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louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1303 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2022  11:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In post like this below you take quite normal photos. Might you be so kind as to just take normal photos showing the whole coin and the edges instead of whatever you are doing in these for this post? Looks more like an art filter or something you are using.

http://goccf.com/t/381728
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2022  12:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agree: filtering may be interfering with image quality.
OP's pics shows same texture at the coin.

Nevertheless, the radial flan splits without inner detail suggest that this coin is cast.
Clearer pics would help to confirm.
New Member
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2022  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks so much for all the amazing advice! Sorry about the pictures, they were taken with my coin microscope! Here are some farther away photos. Used one with Penny so you could see comparison in size. And I have no idea how to get them right side up! I don't see in the photo tutorials! So sorry guys!!!
Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
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louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1303 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2022  10:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Put the coin in your hand please and take it off the blue as we can't judge colors and we can't see the edge. We do need to see the edge in normal light. Take it outside even. Whatever you are doing is making your edges look copper and that is probably not the case. Just take it outside in normal light and use your hands to hold it and show the edge especially. That will help the best and give us reference.
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josephrg's Avatar
United States
234 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2022  11:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add josephrg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin seems to be a cast copy judging from reverse image.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2022  7:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree: use sunlight at the light source
With the blue background pictures, it appears that incandescent light was used, and has resulted in the edges of the coin having a coppery appearance.

Examine the radial flan splits, looking in particular for signs of tensile metal distress inside the split. This diagnostic is impossible to reproduce with a cast reproduction.
New Member
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2022  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ask and ye shall receive!! Thank you for all of the help with this!!!!


Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2022  07:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now excellent pictures, thx.
What little radial flan split detail there is suggests that the coin is genuine.
I cannot see evidence of a base metal core inside the small split,
but the rough fields and somewhat mushy definition of details can suggest otherwise.

Bearing in mind that if false, this coin could be plated, the next step is to do an X-ray florescence (XRF) analysis.
Bullion dealers should have a hand held instrument.

The Romans themselves plated genuine denarii (rarely) to make a profit, and
fourees (contemporary counterfeit), of these also exist.

I have an Annona denarius of Vespasian, the fields a a little smoother but still a bit rough, however the high points of the design both sides, are worn smooth.
High points of coin pictured are of the same texture as the fields

On the balance visual evidence of what I see so far, I feel that this coin is genuine.

Jvdea Capta coins are always popular with collectors of Roman coins and those who make modern fakes are well aware of this.
New Member
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2022  6:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you so much, so I guess my next question is where do I go from here. I am still very new to coin collecting and don't even know what a bullion dealer is. What would I search for to get the X-ray done? Thanks again for all the help!
Pillar of the Community
United States
2213 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2022  7:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A bullion dealer is simply a coin store that also sells silver/gold bars and rounds. If you live not too far from a coin store, call them, ask if they have an analyzer.

If you live near/in a major city there should be a coin store there that sells ancient coins. But many local coin stores sell only modern coins. They do not sell ancient coins and don't know much about them. You could contact ancient coin dealers online, such as those on Vcoins. Send them a few pics of your coin for an opinion.

Wait, stop. I just checked my book by David Hendin "Not Kosher" which has pics of many fake ancient coins. David is one of the best experts on ancient Judaic coins. On page 193. there's a pic of a modern cast Vespasian/Judaea Capta denarius. Surprise surprise, it looks like an exact match to your coin. Below is a scan of the page.

Notice the same small pit by the edge near the "N" of his name on the obverse and the pit on the reverse edge about 4 o'clock position. The top line of the E in IVDAEA is missing on both coins. I think your coin was made by the same poured mold as the fake in David's book. Sorry it's not genuine.

Here on CCF we can give opinions. For a certificate of authenticity you need to have a pro examine a coin in hand. For a fee you could send this coin to David R. Sear, NGC, etc. but you'd be wasting your money. If this coin was mine, I'd put it in a holder and label it as known fake.

I asked you in a prior reply where you "found" this coin. You didn't respond. If you bought it, try to return, get your money back.

It's interesting and fun to collect ancient coins. But as with modern coins it's important to buy from reputable, trusted dealers. We all can learn from online resources, printed reference books and other collectors.

Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
Edited by livingwater
09/03/2022 10:31 pm
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2022  01:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To id fake coins, picture match means a lot,
negatively, unfortunately
New Member
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2022  5:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks so much for all the input! I had been using this book and didn't see the coin so was sort of excited but knew there was a 99.9% chance it was a fake. Thanks again for all of everyone's help!!!
Vesparian-Judea-Capta-Denarius.--3.5g--Could-This-Be-Real?
Pillar of the Community
United States
2213 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2022  08:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not all fake coins are shown in books or online, so due diligence is needed. One good online source is Forum Ancient Coins fake coin reports.

Unless I'm certain, I avoid supposed good buys like on Facebook, Craigslist, garage sales, many of the ancients there will be fake IMO. Many fake ancient coins are sold to tourists in Europe/Mideast, they bring them back to USA and think they are genuine. It's illegal to sell genuine ancient coins in some countries like Turkey, Egypt and others, but they sell plenty of modern fake coins and fake artifacts like oil lamps, jugs, deity images, etc.

I buy from sellers I trust.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/
Edited by livingwater
09/05/2022 08:43 am
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