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 Replies: 285 / Views: 11,279 |
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5178 Posts |
Quote:
If your early 17th c. coin is from "Spanish Netherlands" I can find the composition in Van Gelder & Hoc. If it's Dutch Republic and not given on Numista, I can't help. Spanish Netherlands. Here's the original ID thread (I later posted it in some other threads). Numista says .313 and when I tried to look it up I found something that (after my calculations) rounded to 32% but might not have referred to the exact same type? I have an unrelated Papal States coin that's listed on Numista as .3125, so if this one turns out to be 32% then I have both 32% and 31% which is neat. ...I'll try to remember to check my 50% stuff later today. Edited by january1may
12/18/2023 09:42 am
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5178 Posts |
For now, a trio of .500 silver coins, as I'm searching for other 50% entries among my uploaded pics...   Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic 10 kopek, 15 kopek, 20 kopek, all 1923 all three .500 silver |
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
7963 Posts |
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"Argent-le-roi" is defined as 23/24, and a denier as 1/12 thereof. That gives 1 denier = 1/12.521739... That explains the tiny difference from "even" fractions: 10/12 x 23/24 = 0.7986111... and 5/12 x 23/24 = 0.39930555...  Thank you for solving something that has bothered me for a while! It also explains why by the 17th century the system has shifted a bit, probably just to 12ths without the 23/24 factor (when the "roi" becomes the big dude in Spain rather than the big dude in France). And yes, significant figures ... Good reason that we are only working with two in this thread  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7963 Posts |
Quote:
Spanish Netherlands. Here's the original ID thread (I later posted it in some other threads). GH catalog has the composition as 0.312. It started at 0.312 in Numista, but got changed to 0.313. Maybe because 3 deniers, 16 grains, would come out to 0.3125 based on pure silver rather than argent-le-roi (I haven't looked yet in de Witte to check if that's the specification). And that is a petty obscure coin. Sorry, but it looks like you've got two coins at 31%. As luck would have it, the Schweidnitz half groat you identified in another thread is 5/16 pure, also 31% (I've got a couple of those). The Krakow and Lithuanian polgrosz were 6/16 at the time, 38% for our purposes (I think I have 31, 34, 36, 37 and 38 when we get there). Edited by tdziemia
12/18/2023 4:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5178 Posts |
Quote:
And that is a petty obscure coin. Indeed it is pretty obscure! And petty too, I guess - Roermond doesn't appear to be a large place...My source for the 32% was this document (in Dutch) on the Roermond mint, which I now see gives the same 0.312 figure in the addenda. Apparently an ordnance of 1612 established the purity as 3 deniers 20 grains = 0.319(4), but there is no evidence that such coins were ever struck; there is a pre-1612 issue (represented by my coin) and a dated 1617 issue on which the document's comment is something to the effect of "there is no other evidence of the mint operating that late". A different source (in French) gives no known silver content for the 1605-12 type at all. At least it appears that I have both 22% and 21%, so there's that, I guess? |
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Moderator
 United States
34441 Posts |
This Prussian 1/6 Thaler is 0.561 silver according to numista:   "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Moderator
United States
34441 Posts |
And my other contribution for the 50% range is this 2 Stuiver from Holland, Netherlands that numista lists at 0.583 silver.   "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7963 Posts |
Quote:
This Prussian 1/6 Thaler is 0.561 silver according to numista Super! I see KM has it at 0.521, but we win either way since we are missing both 56 and 52 (I've seen KM is not always correct around this time and place). I'll go with 56% unless someone has other info. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7963 Posts |
Quote:
Indeed it is pretty obscure!
And petty too, I guess - Roermond doesn't appear to be a large place...  Not a fan of spellcheck. My mom would roll over in her grave if I used it. I agree the compositional info on this coin is confusing. I would think the calculation would be the same approach as for my 58% coin which was also specified in an ordonance of 1612, and I agree that gives 0.319 as you calculated for 3 deniers 20 grains. The 0.3125 is consisten with 3 deniers 18 grains, so maybe the specification got changed slightly before it was struck (there were a lot of instances like that ... I've got a 42% and 41% version of the same type, one struck slightly later than the other). Edited by tdziemia
12/19/2023 07:22 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9870 Posts |
Canada 50% My pics don't do this cameo business strike justice, it's a truly gorgeous coin in hand.   1968 Canadian quarters were struck for circulation in both 50% silver and 100% nickel.I also have this coins cameo counterpart in nickel but its eye appeal pales in comparison to the silver version. "Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
12/18/2023 11:02 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9870 Posts |
Here we have the Schrodinger's Cat of Canadian circulation coins. Each coin exists as both 80% silver and 50% silver in content simultaneously until observed with an XRF device, bullion dealers buy these as 65% because there is no other reliable easy non-destructive way of telling their composition .  I can't post an obverse pic of this coin because I've reached my three coin optimizer limit but the obverse is the same as the '68 I posted earlier. It's a cameo circulation coin with a 25 degree rotated die, commonly known as "downhill kitty" variety. "Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
12/19/2023 12:35 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7963 Posts |
Great additions, DBM! Shame on us for not getting a Canadian coin on the thread earlier in this slice (I'm 150 miles from the border and pretty sure I have some 1968s, though I didn;t think to check which composition; I know another guy posting here who's even closer  ). |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7963 Posts |
Time to show your coins containing 40-49% silver! I will start with this 2 gros/groot of Burgundian Netherlands/Brabant that was struck at 48% silver (6 deniers argent-le-roi) between 1434 and 1467, N#95425:   Edited by tdziemia
12/19/2023 11:29 am
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Moderator
United States
189767 Posts |
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Time to show your coins containing 40-49% silver! I will come in at the bottom with the obligatory 40% silver Eisenhower dollar.  1973-S 40% Silver Eisenhower dollar |
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Moderator
United States
34441 Posts |
This Doppelschilling from Hamburg is listed by numista as 0.437 silver:   "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Posted 12/18/2023 3:14 pm
