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 Replies: 77 / Views: 13,485 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts |
sure..MKB would be a greatname, YOU buy it, Glenn and I run it, we get to play with the coinies and draw big $ salaries..YOU pay...
we will be sure we garde yours very high, mostly 65s and 66s, may even higher..
lolololo
obviously, you do not have any Canadian coins and hence are not concerned with the ICCS issue.
If you are,a serious input might be more interesting
HHB
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Valued Member
United States
324 Posts |
I would say that it would be advantageous for many of the ICCS coins to be regraded and put into hard plastic slabs, and photo-ID'ed. Either CCCS or PCGS. Perhaps there is an opportunity here as opposed to a problem....
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New Member
Canada
45 Posts |
I agree MKB. I just received a batch back from CCCS in the hard slab. Graded by more than one person....in a safe holder........consistent grading........Inter net accessible. ICCS has made there own bed. CCCS is the way to go IMHO.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
However... ICCS does NOT have a website NOR email!
this subject is much to important, as the future values of our coins could depend on it.
I admit up front that I have no experience with ICCS but this thread has been enlightening. I too have wondered why they do not have a website or email contact as I have thought about possibly submitting a few of my nicer Canadian coins but realized it would just be too much effort living in the states and only being able to communicate by phone or snail mail. Glenzy stated that the owner is the sole grader so judging by that, I would have to assume that ICCS has kept themselves in the "Stone Age" intentionally so they can deliberately limit their submissions. I am sure many people, especially outside of Canada, are of the opinion that it would require too much effort to submit so it is just not done. One person could not handle the number of submissions they would potentially receive otherwise. |
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New Member
Canada
45 Posts |
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Valued Member
Canada
166 Posts |
Hello,
With all its flaws, ICCS is the standard for grading Canadian coins. ICCS coins are much more saleable (and much higher priced for the grade vs PCGS and NGC) in Canada, and that is where the real (and growing) market for Canadian coins is.
It is not like the US where you can argue about PCGS vs NGC and have "dark horses" like ANACS and ICG and a zillion phony outfits. Here it is ICCS, period. CCCS is not even a distant second, although I understand they grade by similar standards. It is my understanding that CCCS is also "essentially" a one man outfit and, if I understand correctly, he is a major auctioneer for his own (graded) coins.
None of this would be accepted in the US......but this is Canada and they have their own way here.
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Valued Member
United States
324 Posts |
My Two Cents on TPG services - there is much that needs to improve in many areas with all of them. I prefer the grading metrics of PCGS on circulated coins (more level transition from AU to G than in Canadian grading where even a slightly handed coin comes in at EF40 or VF30). Further, PCGS is weak on identifying varieties (where there is much interest in the market - a market driven by collectors and not TPG services) and it seems the prices they charge for what they do is on the high side. I mean, how hard is it to grade circulated coins and stick them in a slab? I also do not like the amount of plastic that goes into the typical hard plastic holder - especially NGC slabs. This adds excessive bulk for storing the coins. None of the TPG services has taken advantage of available technology to finger print coins in order to protect against switched coins or fakes. Decent 3D laser imaging has been around for a while now, and its only a matter of time before decent systems are affordable for everyone. Will collectors wind up employing them before the TPG services do? In fact, with the amount of coins PCGS certifies and the prices they charge, they are in a position to be a leader in pushing the technology but may not be doing so due to a lack of competition. An open, well illustrated and defined standard that everyone can follow is needed, which would facilitate consistency of grading in the market which varies from TPG service to TPG service as well as within the TPG services themselves. I would like to see a grade for each side of a slabbed coin, along with the overall grade of the coin (which would be an average of the two sides - rounded down to the nearest whole grade - but any fractional grade still listed on the slab in a smaller font). As a result, I can see major changes coming into TPG services that may necessitate regrading a large portion of already slabbed coins. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1554 Posts |
I.C.C.S. has been the "Gold" standard and the Hallmark for slabbed Canadian coins so much so, that I know many sellers here in Canada that buy AU-50-to-AU-58 slabbed I.C.C.S. coins, crack' em out and re-submit them to American T.P.G. Services.
A vast majority of the time the coins come back anywhere from 1 to 3 grades higher. So imagine a key date piece that can jump in price literally overnight by thousands of dollars just by another T.P.G. re-slabbing it! It's being done now as
I write this post.
The same coin is now re-sold on E-bay for 2x-3x what it was originally bought for.
Glenn
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
10743 Posts |
Just goes to prove, that nobody grades the same. Save your money, and grade your coins yourself.  |
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New Member
Canada
45 Posts |
Well now......since some wish to chuck stuff.......CCCS has never had a tampered with holder....Have never denied being a seller of coins......but have never attempted to corner the market with select dealers as to the type of varietys that they may endorse....... watch for the 08/09/10 5 cents soon. @ funny how some defend......a coin is a coin
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1554 Posts |
Hey SHAFTA9A, are you kidding me! SAVE MONEY, if you wanna save money send all your coins to I.C.C.S. and have 'em slabbed. Because sooner or later you will have to liquid your collection. If you decide to pass them on someday, whoever inherits them may want to liquid them someday. By Certifying them via I.C.C.S. you will always receive a higher premium than if you were to sell them RAW. IF you don't believe me, start monitoring E-bay sales for the next 6 months, and you'll see! Glenn  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts |
wowwwwwowwwwwwooooo
stop all !!!
we all know what we are up against with ICCS (GOD ?) or the US any TGG, and now in the UK also with a 100 point grading system. Perhaps we can lobby the "political" guys to establish rules about basic lawful grading... based on certain minimum standards, be it in the US or Canada...
if there are enough of us supporting it... IT WILL WORK
business is most definitely large enough....
HHB
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Valued Member
Canada
166 Posts |
I posted this to another question but thought it would fit this equally also.
If you actually plot a statistical distribution of MS and PL dollars, PCGS and NGC fall almost on top of each other and ICCS is 1-1.5 grade lower (ie 1-1.5 grade tougher)for most years. If the populations are large enough (which I think they are for ICCS and PCGS, marginal for NGC) and you assume the submission to the three services are of roughly equal quality then the average ICCS MS or PL dollar is under-graded by 1-1.5 units compared to the major American services.
Is the ICCS grade bias? I've heard some wonderful comments about Brian and some really awful comments also. I don't know which are true. I worry that the people offering praise always struck me as frightened rather than admiring. But in any event....this (one grader "god" system) would never be tolerated anywhere else I know of besides Canada. It leaves open even to question even the most honest man.
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Valued Member
United States
324 Posts |
One thing though with PCGS/NGC vs ICCS - the cost of submission for them is higher, so only the better coins go to PCGS and NGC. For ICCS (because the cost is lower), many lower grade coins are submitted in the hope of receiving a higher grade. This skews the results. As for the "dominance" of ICCS, there is some history to this. It was the first and only company in Canada to grade Canadian coins until a few years ago. ICCS was preferred over US TPG services for a variety of reason (cost, cross-border shipping issues, differences in grading style). The market for Canadian coins is not big enough for more than one or two people to grade. The US market for coins is about 20 to 50 times bigger than the market for Canadian coins (depending on how you measure it), so its easier to justify multiple TPG services each with more than 1 grader. But far from being a problem, all of this really presents good opportunities as was mentioned earlier. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts |
It is soooooooo interesting to read all the different inputs, adeas and guesses.  However the actual subject is Brian Cornwell being the SOLE and exclusive grader at ICCS.  AND the question is  : what happens IF, or maybe WHEN he will(for whatever reason) NO longer grade coins for ICCS?who will then "be" ICCS? hhb |
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Replies: 77 / Views: 13,485 |
First Page
Posted 05/06/2009 3:21 pm
