What Will Happen To I.c.c.s If Brian Cornwell Passes Away?

I would say the answer is there in general terms - there will always be change in this hobby, more change is needed and everyone will adapt to the change as they have in the past. If ICCS were to stop grading today, the coins in ICCS holders would still be worth the same. Folks in Canada would have one less option in which to send coins to. CCCS's business would probably pick up, along with PCGS. Perhaps a new service (HCCS?) may come into being...

Hi MKB,

I think you are wrong about relative submissions to PCGS/ NGC vs. ICCS. I think that ICCS may get a little better material then PCGS/ NGC. Unlike the US where you might send something in and "pray", NOBODY sends sliders to ICCS because (it is widely assumed) NONE of them make it though.

Almost no one up here submits to PGCS (and less to NGC) because ICCS coins are much more liquid (as well as higher priced in any grade). The 2 people who I do know have submitted Canadian coins to PCGS from Canada stopped because they felt that the Canadian "go to" guy up here that PCGS uses as an expert is dishonest (something I might agree with after dealing with him on another matter).

I think that a lot of Canadians retire to warmer climates (like Florida and So Cal) and their Canadian material makes its way into the US system, ie PCGS and NGC. That is the pool of Canadian material that ends up in US slabs and it is more random than is submitted in Canada to ICCS.

The US coin market, in dollar terms is probably 100+ times he Canadian market (literally). But for Canadian coins, 80%+ of the market is probably up here.

Still, a one grader system is dangerous. I am sure that someone will take over after Brian when he is gone and attempt to apply conservative standards so as to maintain the brand, at least here in Canada. The conservative reputation is the only thing that gives the brand value.

Hi MKB,

Your conclusions are still incorrect even if you have fun with Internet numbers. What is it called, the Amrash (sp?) report on ebay you got this from?(Something like that I can't even find it advertised any more up here, guess nobody wants it). Get rid of it and start doing some real analysis.

Yes Canadians send collector grade coins to ICCS, but the also send the gems there much more than PCGS.

I own a number of best ever graded PCGS PL dollars as well as a number of best ever graded ICCS PL dollars. Some are single best ever graded (by both services). In most issues the top PCGS grade is PL68 and the best ICCS is PL 67. In some years the top PCGS is PL67 and in some years the top ICCS is PL66. There is exactly one PCGS PL69 dollar (1954)and exactly one ICCS PL68 dollar (1956) as of the most recent population reports by both services, even though ICCS has graded more PL dollars than PCGS.

The population distribution curves for MS and PL Canadian dollars are almost super imposable for PCGS and NGC and a full 1 point (closer to 1.5 points) lower than comparable distribution curves for ICCS, if you were to ever take the time to do such an analysis.

I am not defending ICCS. I have spent more money on PCGS Canadian coins (in aggregate) then ICCS coins. My collection is about 45% ICCS, 40% PCGS and 15% NGC. PCGS is always priced a grade lower than ICCS for quality (65 or better) material. Often more. NGC is even lower. There are many true bargains up here for NGC coins.

Perhaps the reason why I.C.C.S. receives far greater submissions of lower grade coins than P.C.G.S. is that there are not very many high grade Canadian coins to begin with. Check the recent 2009 I.C.C.S. Population Report and you will see only a fraction of Mintstate coins for Victorian and Edwardian issues compared to the more affordable VG's and VF's that are out there.
Also don't forget the pricing difference to have a coin slabbed by P.C.G.S. compared to paying 1/4 of that for an I.C.C.S. slab. Also keep in mind that the 2008 "Ashrap Report" and "The Standard Certified Price Guide of Canadian Coins" both show realized sale prices for all the major T.P.G.'s in Canada and the U.S.
In every instance the realized sale price for I.C.C.S. slabbed coins comes out ahead of all other T.P.G.'s for canadian coins. It's a fact and regardless what E-bay shows as the average price a coin of a particular T.P.G. has sold for in 2008, I.C.C.S. is THE #1 T.P.G. in Canada, and I'll bet my LIFE ON IT.

Glenn

Glenn

you are definitely right there....so far..
should you ever be wrong about this.... what then?
make sure you will me your collection...
HHB

looks like Glenzy burning up the place here...

That would be a huge amount of work, since their base of existing graded coins must number in the tens of thousands. Each would have to be entered by hand into the database.