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 Replies: 265 / Views: 17,306 |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
I was going to say something stupid like, "hmmmm, I must have missed that thread", but I see that I didn't, I just don't recall it. Good stuff by the mod too. I use to have some 03-Os but no more, unless I find them under something which is always a possibility. They seem to still have a special draw for type collectors though.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
I have long operated on the premise if I have it, it can not be that rare.
I suppose now, for discussion purposes, we will have to define rare.
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Okay, sounds good.....you first Oz.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Thats a great point...the truth of rare or perception of rare?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
Since this discussion has drifted to 1821's, I have a 1921-P VAM 71 A Doubled profile. Of the reported forty-four million six hundred and ninety thousand minted this one is certified from PCGS as a Mint error. In fact, it is a double mint error. Lamination error on the obverse and a grease strike-thru on the reverse that obliterated the letter L of D-O-L-L-A-R. The coin is graded MS 62. The VAM 71 A has an R-5 value on it. How accurate is it? How accurate is it relative to this specific coin? Obviously when this coin was cataloged by Leroy Van Allen he wasn't looking at a coin with a double error. In terms of nomenclature are we discussioning conditional rarity or relative rarity? |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Sounds like quite 'THE' coin Oz. Would love to see pictures someday. Personally, I have always considered rarity to be of the relative type. For instance, I have a banknote of a variety that only 4 are known, and mine is holdered a VG-10. Doesn't sound so great, until the fact is considered that VG-10 is top pop. I would say rare to me is a coin of less than 100 known specimens. I know that this definition would be considered extremely radical to most folks, but we each have our own visions of the meanings of many words. I am willing to go along with the crowd, and the crowd goes with Sheldon. The VAM crowd dances to the beat of a different drum, which causes confusion and frustration to those not accustomed to it and they get out of step. |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Keep in mind, regarding Morgan rarity - I would be astonished if every VAMmer ever, added up together, has studied as much as 25% of the total existing Morgan dollars. Including Leroy. We just don't know how truly rare all but maybe fifty varieties actually are. |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
 Oh, that is both interesting and surprising to me. What is the basis for some of the egos then? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
I don't know about thj ego's but many years have 10 or so VAM's listed, so I have to agree with Dave on that point! there's still a lot that is unknown to the field.. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
Conditional rarity is an aspect to consider. Certified mint errors are interesting. Having two different errors on either side of this coin simply means the rarity rating of R-5 might make the coin an R-7. Who knows?
Trouble is no one really knows. There are educated guesses to be sure, but it is still a guessing game.
There certainly could be more. But on the other hand, so what? who cares? And that is the crux of the issue. Rarity ratings are an educated guess by Leroy Van Allen and while he was alive, A. George Mallis.
Educated guesses by two men who viewed a large number of coins.
What is of interest, overall, is they were pretty consistent and while off on a few, over time most were found ( and still counting) to be generally correct.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
I find that strange?, that PCGS deemed it a mint error, and every Morgan has doubling and everything else, and that they now of course recognise strike thru's and such...was this some time ago befor the whole VAM thing caught on? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
Gene, PCGS will list different types of mint errors. Rotational errors must be off at least 35 degrees. The mint allowed 15 degrees. Lamination, strike-thru's, partial collar clips, off center strikes are a few that I am aware of.
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
I shall take your word for all of that Oz. I will tuck it away and save it for another day.
The thing about conditional rarity intrigues me. I had never considered errors to be any different than anything else when speaking of condition. I have several error coins, but I had thought that condition referred to the VG-8 or the AU-55 , MS-66, etc. I had considered that the error part of it was not an aspect of condition. Maybe this is yet another thing that I will learn here. I can see how that an error would contribute to rarity, but I would call that relative rarity rather than conditional rarity. I guess that with a coin such as your v-71A, you have the best of both.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
It is an interesting question to think about isn't it?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
yes I can see that, there are many know minting errors,
but for the 21's a double profile is not seldom seen as its very common for the 1900 to 1904 series... and a strike thru to boot...that would be a true rareity...much like an N clash for the 21 morgan series, you just don't see many and 44 million were made?
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Replies: 265 / Views: 17,306 |
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Posted 07/29/2010 1:37 pm
