Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Specializing in Modern Numismatics Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsCoin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. 300,000 items to help build your collection! Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

What Does Perfect Really Mean?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 24 / Views: 3,771Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar of the Community
SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2010  09:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll just discuss the definition of "perfect" as it relates to coin grades and let the rest of you discuss the merits of modern MS70 ASE's vs MS69.

A perfect coin is one that is struck with new dies (not showing signs of wear), on a non-flawed planchet, with correct striking pressure on a properly functioning press. Immediately after striking it is MS70. As it ejects the from the press it begins its downward spiral in grade. If by some fortunate chance it does not contact other hard objects (ejection chute, coin bin or other coins) it remains perfect.

The one MS69 Morgan dollar led a very charmed life. It avoided contact with hard objects and handling marks for over 100 years. When you consider the environment it endured, a plausible reason for its condition would be "special handling" ... someone plucked it off the press and tucked it away for safe-keeping. Then offered perfect protection for that coin. Other Morgans may have been plucked, but suffered from minor mishandling over the years and became MS68 and MS67.

Today with the special handling of these non-circulating pieces, perfection is not so great a phenomenon and I personally place no premium on MS70.

This concludes my rambling.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1547 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2010  09:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eddiespin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grading at that level is as arbitrary as it is inconsistent.
Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2010  4:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree Perfect is in the eye of the beholder but in my eyes a MS-69PL of any Morgan series is "PERFECT" no matter what date it is. I just think it is amazing a coin can remain in that condition for 130 years even though I wish they had the foresight to do it to a more rarer date but still everyone has to admit that coin is truly amazing
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
twohawks's Avatar
United States
1551 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2010  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twohawks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Buy the coin and not the slab. Very upper PCGS and NGC type coins are good investments. As far as just Perfect well that would be my wife of 23 years today. She puts up with myself and my hobbies, and is the Best thing other than our son to ever happen to me.
Pillar of the Community
steve199's Avatar
United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2010  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
As far as just Perfect well that would be my wife of 23 years today. She puts up with myself and my hobbies, and is the Best thing other than our son to ever happen to me.


That is fantastic, congrats! Hope ya'll got to do something special. Wait a sec, you were posting on CCF. hehe


Quote:
Very upper PCGS and NGC type coins are good investments.


If by "upper" you include modern coins with high grades on them (69, 70), then my opinion falls somewhere between "I disagree" and "the jury's still out". And I enjoy owning a perfect coin as much as the next guy.




Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
twohawks's Avatar
United States
1551 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2010  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twohawks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Steve very upper to me is a MS 66 - 67 If you have the very best few are able to buy it. I love to look at the moon... I do not what to walk on it.. LOL
Pillar of the Community
steve199's Avatar
United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2010  11:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Still, if you are talking about the moderns, I still believe what I said. For example, I find it difficult to claim that a 1998 Cent in MS66-67 is a good investment. Cool to own and look at, yes.

I'm not trying to pick a nit. There are lots of new collectors on here, and you never know what they might do with what they read. My opinion is that running out and dropping a couple grand on modern high graded coins may be a bad investment.

Really, finding a good investment in *any* area is not easy...be it stocks, real estate, or coins.
New Member
Vanallen74's Avatar
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2010  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Vanallen74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all the replies everyone, with special note to SeatedNut.

I picked up on several important keywords amongst the replies that confirm my suspicion about the 70 grade racket. I agree with the importance of grading a rare coin since rare typically equals valuable, which means that a grading company will be more likely to be held to a quality standard.

A roll or even handpicked set of twenty 2010 silver dollars seems pointless to grade today because they are common. Individually wrapping them for storage seems like a better idea in the event that someday something happens to reduce the circulating quantity of a particular coin, subsequently making it worth them worth the cost of grading.

I started collecting comics in the late 80's when they were still "normal". In the 90s however, when it became apparent that contemporary comics could become very valuable, you started seeing chrome editions, multiple covers for the same book, intentional misprints passed off for errors, one book in a story set "mysteriously" having a low print run, specially bagged editions that you dare not open, #0's when the series is already at 50, etc. Buying a convenience store edition that had a UPC code (ohhhh!) on the cover (not so for a comic book store copy) was seen as a mistake. Avoiding books with even the slightest bend mark in the spine was another must. And then there were the propaganizing rumors of publisher funding shortfalls supposedly resulting in low or no print runs, inciting customers into mass pre-purchases. Anything for a buck!

Edit: On the discussion of the CC Morgans, I have one of those 1884's that were "discovered" in a govt bank vault. It's in particularly excellent condition except for the scratches on the face that are common with the Morgans in that discovery (another nod to SeatedNut's explanation of handling). I've always wondered if they were really discovered on the floor in a pile, as I'd once heard.

At least as far as the internet goes, I've never found any information on how the coins were being stored (at the time of discovery). Were they in rolls perhaps, but subsequently scratched by careless employees that sifted through them for cataloging, cherry picking, or whatever?
Edited by Vanallen74
03/25/2010 2:25 pm
Pillar of the Community
SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2010  2:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
At least as far as the internet goes, I've never found any information on how the coins were being stored (at the time of discovery). Were they in rolls perhaps, but subsequently scratched by careless employees that sifted through them for cataloging, cherry picking, or whatever?


If you're referring to the GSA hoard, the majority of UNC offerings came from $1000 mint-sewn bags. These were in the vaults of the Federal Reserve and had been taking up space for over 100 years ... no one wanted them until silver spiked with the elimination of silver in circulating coinage. These coins still received scratches and dings from the bags being moved around and the Morgans inside struck each other. The gems were in isolated corners of the bag with limited movement around them. You haven't lived until you've seen a $1000 mint-sewn bag of Morgans. I was fortunate to see several bags in the mid-60's when the banks were selling them for face value to the public.
  Previous TopicReplies: 24 / Views: 3,771Next Topic
Page: of 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.29 seconds to rattle this change. Forums